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Original poster

Architects design 200k over our budget

69 replies

roastednuts123 · 26/02/2023 15:53

Keen for some thoughts here please! If you buy a house which needs some renovating, you have a budget to do the work (which is decent, but not endless, essentially took extra mortgage to cover it) you select an architect to help create the design / layout and create plans.... would you expect the quotes from builders to come back at least reasonably within your budget area? Surely it's the architects job to create something to within your budget? Or is that wrong?
We've been through months of this now and scaled back once, we've now put the most recent plans out for quotes and we're still over 200k over our budget. We're paying out for planning approvals/architect fees / structural engineer costs, and then going back to the drawing board.
I know costs are high and continuing to rise, but surely architects work closely with builders and will help design something appropriate? For context this is a house that essentially could be redecorated and a wall knocked down and new kitchen and bathroom, so doesn't have to be rebuilt or anything like that. We're living in it currently so it's not inhabitable.

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Whatthediddlyfeck · 26/02/2023 15:57

How many quotes have come back at that price range? We recently did a full renovation and it cost about £120k, a couple of years ago it would have been half that

Whatthediddlyfeck · 26/02/2023 15:58

I ended up getting my own builder as the architect was spectacularly useless in that respect! Apart from 1 all my quotes came in within £10k of each other

Original poster
roastednuts123 · 26/02/2023 16:14

We've had 2 quotes so far both within 10k of each other. We're still waiting for another one. Costs have ramped right up haven't they.

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CatOnTheChair · 26/02/2023 16:32

I guess it depends on the original budget.
If you've got 20k for a 2 story extension, new bathrooms and full kitchen, the quotes are going to come in over budget.
If you have 200k, and the architect is spending double that, they have spectacularly failed the brief.

pawz · 26/02/2023 16:35

I think it depends - if you set your budget and started to do plans sometime last year, inflation and prices of labour / goods has absolutely sky rocketed - 200k over is a lot, but depends on price of the build as a % over and what type of extension your planning!

DH is in construction and prices are wild right now. How many quotes have you got back? Are they all 200k over?

Original poster
roastednuts123 · 26/02/2023 16:36

Thanks for the replies. We have 250k budget, quotes are coming in 450-500k. We're not completely stupid and have an idea of property but not experts. Perhaps we hadn't factored in the doubling building costs in last few years. I feel that's what we're paying the architect for but wondered if I'm just completely mistaken! Glad to hear I'm probably not! I'm completely fed up of this. We're seeing the architect later this week and wanting to make sure I'm not wrong in assuming he should be working within our budget!

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Original poster
roastednuts123 · 26/02/2023 16:40

pawz · 26/02/2023 16:35

I think it depends - if you set your budget and started to do plans sometime last year, inflation and prices of labour / goods has absolutely sky rocketed - 200k over is a lot, but depends on price of the build as a % over and what type of extension your planning!

DH is in construction and prices are wild right now. How many quotes have you got back? Are they all 200k over?

We've had a few quotes back and all hugely over budget although one is 350k compared to others nearer 500k (which rings alarm bells really considering they're all working off the same structural design plan?!)

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minipie · 26/02/2023 16:40

IME architects can be a bit optimistic and/or out of date re what a project will cost. The architect should have tried to stay within budget (assuming you made your budget clear to them) but you and they never really know what the cost is until you start asking builders.

minipie · 26/02/2023 16:43

You will get very different quotes if you haven’t set out a detailed spec. For example one builder may assume all walls and ceilings need skimming and another will not. One builder may assume cheapo light fittings, flooring, radiators and another mid range. Etc.

mathanxiety · 26/02/2023 16:45

The budget is definitely something the architect should have uppermost in mind.

Otherwise you're just paying him to let his imagination loose with no regard for reality at all.

You can afford about 100k worth of an extension in terms of costs from three years ago.

Original poster
roastednuts123 · 26/02/2023 16:48

Thanks minipie. We've given a fairly detailed spec to the builders and we look at the quotes in detail (they are broken down so we can fully review what's been priced and what hasnt). I guess I'm more annoyed that the architect hasn't got a clue about how much it all costs (or even a vague ballpark, like get us within 50/75k of budget would be ok!). I do realise I might be expecting too much but this just feels like an incredibly long process!

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pawz · 26/02/2023 16:49

@roastednuts123

Are all of those budgets pricing the exact same scope of work? With the same labour? That's a lot of difference between £350k to over £500k!

I'd be a bit peeved tbh, it's a lot of effort to get to that stage, even with an allowance for inflation and crazy materials prices

Original poster
roastednuts123 · 26/02/2023 16:51

mathanxiety · 26/02/2023 16:45

The budget is definitely something the architect should have uppermost in mind.

Otherwise you're just paying him to let his imagination loose with no regard for reality at all.

You can afford about 100k worth of an extension in terms of costs from three years ago.

Thanks. Do you mean what would've been 100k extension is now 250k? (Sorry if being thick). These costs aren't coming down any time soon are they.
You make a great point about the budget and architects imagination!

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3WildOnes · 26/02/2023 16:53

I think this is really really common. Everyone I know who has used an architect has had this exact problem. Which is why we just worked with our builder.

Original poster
roastednuts123 · 26/02/2023 16:53

pawz · 26/02/2023 16:49

@roastednuts123

Are all of those budgets pricing the exact same scope of work? With the same labour? That's a lot of difference between £350k to over £500k!

I'd be a bit peeved tbh, it's a lot of effort to get to that stage, even with an allowance for inflation and crazy materials prices

Yes pawz exact same scope of work. Crazy isn't it. I am peeved. It's just added months onto what is already a long process.

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Original poster
roastednuts123 · 26/02/2023 16:55

3WildOnes · 26/02/2023 16:53

I think this is really really common. Everyone I know who has used an architect has had this exact problem. Which is why we just worked with our builder.

I just want to get to a point where we can do this, and focus on the builders not the architect. But with changes to the plans meaning revisiting planning permission (even though we're making smaller it still needs new permission or amendments approving) we still need to use the architect.

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3WildOnes · 26/02/2023 17:01

Ours was only a small extension and remodeling of our downstairs. I think we only needed to submit the drawing from the structural engineer. I guess if you are planning large extension you need to submit architects drawings too. Tricky. Maybe ask your favourite builder what you could do with your budget and then take that to the architect.

minipie · 26/02/2023 17:15

Ok if you have a detailed scope/spec the variations are a bit more surprising

We had about 4 quotes, 3 very similar and 1 much lower… the guy with the lower quote came round and clearly didn’t have a clue so unfortunately I think you get what you pay for.

unfortunateevents · 26/02/2023 17:29

What are you asking for for £250K? If you really want redecoration, a wall knocking down and a new kitchen and bathroom(assuming you mean renovation of the existing structures and not building an extension to house them) then your quotes seem extortionate, even with increased costs of materials. Are you happy that the plans reflect what you asked for or has the architect taken off on a flight of fancy? How long ago were the original plans drawn up? I think when you have your meeting you have to be very clear with them that you only have a fixed budget, establish why the costs are coming in so much above that and try to get him to at least outline (based on the current figures) what you can actually achieve. Then it's time to decide if you wish to proceed with a reduced plan or wait until prices hopefully come down a bit and you have more time to save.

SunshineAndFizz · 26/02/2023 17:45

We've had a terrible experience with an architect. Told them our approx budget and the sort of thing we were after. All quotes for the drawings they've done are double the budget we set them. We realistically thought we might spend slightly more than the original budget, as things always crop up during a build, but not double.

Really disappointed in the architect, surely that's their job to design things in the ballpark cost of a brief.

Original poster
roastednuts123 · 26/02/2023 17:47

Thanks so much everyone. This is really helpful.

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Original poster
roastednuts123 · 26/02/2023 17:48

SunshineAndFizz · 26/02/2023 17:45

We've had a terrible experience with an architect. Told them our approx budget and the sort of thing we were after. All quotes for the drawings they've done are double the budget we set them. We realistically thought we might spend slightly more than the original budget, as things always crop up during a build, but not double.

Really disappointed in the architect, surely that's their job to design things in the ballpark cost of a brief.

This is exactly where we are! I'm so fed up of this and can't wait to hear what they have to say this week when we see them.

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Original poster
roastednuts123 · 26/02/2023 17:54

unfortunateevents · 26/02/2023 17:29

What are you asking for for £250K? If you really want redecoration, a wall knocking down and a new kitchen and bathroom(assuming you mean renovation of the existing structures and not building an extension to house them) then your quotes seem extortionate, even with increased costs of materials. Are you happy that the plans reflect what you asked for or has the architect taken off on a flight of fancy? How long ago were the original plans drawn up? I think when you have your meeting you have to be very clear with them that you only have a fixed budget, establish why the costs are coming in so much above that and try to get him to at least outline (based on the current figures) what you can actually achieve. Then it's time to decide if you wish to proceed with a reduced plan or wait until prices hopefully come down a bit and you have more time to save.

Fair question! When I said what we could do (ie. Just redecorating and knock a wall down etc) it was just to mean that as a minimum we could do that and it would be ok. The house isn't a wreck or anything. We do want a small extension area and a bit of remodelling so 250k should've been manageable to do that. I know we need to accept some blame for saying 'why don't we do this' with a few things but at no point in the process has the architect sat back and said 'ok but you realise cost-wise that is going to be significant'. My only question really was is it the architects job to design within a budget and I think the answer is yes, to a point. Obviously if the customer is saying I want all this and not prepared to compromise it's a different matter!

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AmandaClare · 26/02/2023 17:57

Such a common problem with architects. Very easy to let your imagine run free when it’s other people’s money.

I’d suggest finding a good builder and discuss budget etc with them, work out what you can do for the money then just use the architect for drawing it all up.

Original poster
roastednuts123 · 26/02/2023 17:59

unfortunateevents · 26/02/2023 17:29

What are you asking for for £250K? If you really want redecoration, a wall knocking down and a new kitchen and bathroom(assuming you mean renovation of the existing structures and not building an extension to house them) then your quotes seem extortionate, even with increased costs of materials. Are you happy that the plans reflect what you asked for or has the architect taken off on a flight of fancy? How long ago were the original plans drawn up? I think when you have your meeting you have to be very clear with them that you only have a fixed budget, establish why the costs are coming in so much above that and try to get him to at least outline (based on the current figures) what you can actually achieve. Then it's time to decide if you wish to proceed with a reduced plan or wait until prices hopefully come down a bit and you have more time to save.

Plans were drawn up a couple of months ago and we've had the structural engineer in to do his design too now. This week will be the 3rd plan 'scaling back' because we got quotes for plan 1 and they were 450k upwards, we scaled back (plan 2) and used those for the structural engineer and then had quotes again (albeit more accurate quotes due to the engineer designs) and finding quotes have not moved! There has been maybe 2 months between plan 1 and plan 2. Our scaling back clearly wasn't enough, or prices have gone nuts in 2 months!

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