Architects design 200k over our budget

[roastednuts123]

Keen for some thoughts here please! If you buy a house which needs some renovating, you have a budget to do the work (which is decent, but not endless, essentially took extra mortgage to cover it) you select an architect to help create the design / layout and create plans.... would you expect the quotes from builders to come back at least reasonably within your budget area? Surely it's the architects job to create something to within your budget? Or is that wrong?
We've been through months of this now and scaled back once, we've now put the most recent plans out for quotes and we're still over 200k over our budget. We're paying out for planning approvals/architect fees / structural engineer costs, and then going back to the drawing board.
I know costs are high and continuing to rise, but surely architects work closely with builders and will help design something appropriate? For context this is a house that essentially could be redecorated and a wall knocked down and new kitchen and bathroom, so doesn't have to be rebuilt or anything like that. We're living in it currently so it's not inhabitable.

Yes, we had a similar experience a few years ago. The budget for our architect was £150-200, all quotes ended up being around £300-350.

That's 300-350K

We had this with our architect. But as part of the process he gave an estimation of build costs which in fairness weren't massively out of scope with what it came back with...but his design was more than our budget

But as part of his drawings he gave as estimated cost of build eg £4000 per metre squared for extension which was based on some calculator with local info. Did your architect use something similar to give an indication of cost?

A good Architect should either work to your budget or tell you they can't. (I'm married to an Architect)

@roastednuts123 I feel you pain, we've now paid for drawings we'll never end up using, feels like a huge waste of time and money.

Happy to be corrected, but I really thought the architect would advise on our ideas, i.e. "you can't do x within the realms of you budget, it would have to be smaller or you can do y instead for that ballpark."

I think it's hard for architects to resist designing the best possible space to the highest spec. A few years ago, we employed an architect to design a basic lean to extension, 18 meter square. I said budget is 30 - 40K. He gave us 4 massive velux windows, zinc roofing, aluminium windows etc...
The builder gasped when he saw the plans and said, "Do you know how much all these materials cost?" The builder was also very good at improving the practical design, where the architect favoured the aesthetic: for example, the architect's plans gave us a tiny 30cm gap at the side of the house between the extension and the garage, which the builder looked at and said, "Do you really want to lose your side access?" So IME, if you can find a good builder, listen to them as much as the architect.

What type of building companies are you getting quotes from?

We are doing a full house renovation plus a new extension in south east. Extension has been quoted at £45 k for shell finish (and we source and pay for the glass on top for the doors and roof lights)

We got electricians and plasterers and bathroom fitters etc in separately. For example we were quoted £11k plus vat for electrical work from the bigger builders. We have ended up paying just under £3.5 k for a local electrician. The bigger builders quoted £2.5k to plaster each room. We've paid a decorator to line those that are rough but good, and paid about £2.5 k total to a local plasterer to board and line where needed. It is a bit annoying, but it should come in at half what the build and manage were quoting hopefully

How big is the extension and how big is the area you are renovating?

Three possibilities

• your wish list was never achievable within your budget
• your wish list was a achievable at the start of the project and the architect based the sketches on these and prices have since escalated
• there are other additions that have ramped up the cost since the original plans and budget, which you may or may not be aware of e.g. a ground floor extension with extension of an existing basement from beneath the original ground floor to the new area.

does you architect get paid based on a % of overall build costs or a flat fee for each stage?

Depends how you phrased what you wanted. If you said “this is what I want” without specifying a budget then I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it comes in over, but if you started on the premise of “this is our budget, what can we do?” then yes, I’d be annoyed. Is it listed?

Similar experience here (South East). 200/300 became 500 for not very much, and bear in mind you always end up going over budget.

@A1b2c3d4e5f6g7 can i ask who you are using for your extension?

i don't really understand how a small extension & bit of remodelling can cost 450k tbh.

Our architect was the same. He said it will cost X amount so we remortgaged for just over that amount. Had to remortgage then as our fixed term was up. Got to building reg drawings which builders needed to quote and was 50% more so we had to borrow more but at a much higher rate! I feel your pain.

Costing a building project is a whole other profession in itself though - quantity surveying. In an ideal world the architect would work with a quantity surveyor to ensure he is designing within budget.
Sorry to say but architects are notoriously bad at estimating costs, but not without good reason as they are designers & budgeting just isn't often isn't their bag.

Thanks everyone for the replies and advice. The extension is approx 70sqm so not small and there's new heating, plumbing, electrics etc. Some demolishing of existing (diy) extension.
We're midlands so not London prices (if that's a thing for building work!)

The poster who asked how can it be so much - prob due to size of extension work...? I don't know either but sadly for me it is that much unless 2 builders don't want the work so have put in silly quotes. Hope that is the case then we might get some smaller quotes. As I mentioned previously 1 quote of the 3 has come in at 350k but I'm slightly dubious of those builders.

A pp asked what companies we're using - small building firms, all local outfits.
As a pp said, we will probably do the work separately and not use one firm for it all. Hopefully cheaper that way and we can manage it ourselves.

I've probably downplayed the amount of work but my question really was about was it the architects job to work within our budget. Which was clearly stated at the outset. Some really helpful replies here so thank you so much!

You don't necessarily need an architect to get planning though. Planning permission doesn't need very detailed drawings, a builder plus a not expensive planning consultant should be able to do that easily.

I know planning consultants who submit drawings for extensions etc and don't even use CAD software but draw it up in Word and it's been fine so long as it has the right info on that the planners need. Planners tend to know the planning system best too.

Would also consider a QS in your position.

Have you approached RESI for a design? They are really good. Give them a call.

Yep, from bitter experience I’d say always go with a surveyor who specialises in plan design rather than an architect. We were totally fleeced. Told architect our budget and what we hoped to achieve, he said yep that’s fine…. Our budget was £200k, quotes came in at £750k!!! Also midlands area - wonder if you’ve got the same one😡. For residential architects just aren’t value for £.

@safeplanet we have had two quotes from local builders, and one from a builder we used previously in London (we don't live far from London) and all have come in at between £38k and £45k. We're prob going with the middle one, purely because of timings and when they've a free spot. Ours is only about 24 m 2 and a flat roof, and the roof lights and glass doors are about £15 k on top of this. We don't have the experience to manage an extension ourselves, but the full renovation inside we are managing (and are part way through)

We had a, similar problem in Hampshire. I think the architect thought she was working for the show Grand Designs.
We ended up using a surveyor who drew up plans and then went to the different specialists - so builder, Plasterer, electrician etc which worked out cheaper.

Builders are chancing their arm at the moment. We have just finished a 120sqm build and came in just under 400 including vat. I think if we had done it pre covid we would have been about £275k with fancier finishes.

Labour not materials was the highest cost. Materials were £100k ish plus kitchen and bathroom. I was paying many people £350plus a day.

Its not all the architects fault. I think its hard for them to keep up with the price rises. Try speaking to a design and build firm.

We had this issue. Our starting budget given to our architect was £250k. They had no idea at all how to manage the design to this figure. They made some good suggestions that were ridiculously expensive to do and we had to abandon them. Original quotes came in starting at £400k and up past £500k!!

We amended the plans and made some changes along the way. Ended up costing £350k. I really like the finished house, but wish I’d started with the drawings we’ve ended up with. I reckon it would have been cheaper than getting those first quotes and then getting them reworked.

Our builder was great, but I regret using his plumber who was shit and he totally overcharged us for the decorating at the end. With hindsight, I wish I’d managed individual trades myself!!

I completely agree with what a lot of posters have said that architects are notorious for underestimating build costs. Unless they build/develop themselves as well as designing, they’re generally out of touch with prices and Focus on the aesthetic. And designing a house / extension which is within your budget is clearly a central part of their job.

Having said that, the quotes you have are astronomic for an extension that is 70 m2, unless there are special circumstances - eg expensive groundwork is needed. We’re in the process of building a house, albeit in Germany, and I expect the costs are higher here as houses are built to a higher spec. Here for a new
build you have to reckon with 3000 EUR/m2 for a basic specification or 3500 EUR for a fairly high spec, but not luxury. Ground works / planning / fees / utilities etc come on top of that. Still I struggle to understand how you are being quoted nearly double that.

Have the builders given you a clear breakdown of the costs? I wonder if some of them are trying it on or quoting high as they don’t want to do the job?

Architects design to a rough estimate of cost. If you want a more accurate cost (which can still be wrong) you need a Quantity Surveyor. Most clients don't want to pay £££ for a QS though.

Unfortunately architects can only use the most current information they have at the time of designing a job- which tends to be jobs being built.... so by the time it gets to receiving prices for your job the prices it was based on are months (if not a year or more) out of date. Normally that can be reverse engineered but the way prices have been spiralling over the past year there's absolutely no way of forecasting what's going to rise and by how much. Throw into the mix a shortage of labour and a high demand for builders and it's a perfect storm. We've never seen price rises like the recent ones, it's absolutely insane. Building merchants near us are only holding prices for builders for 24hrs, prices are rising that quickly. As a result builders are massively over pricing to allow for the price rise caused by the inevitable delay between quoting and them being able to lock in prices. One way some of our clients have been able to sidestep this is to pay for ALL the materials upfront and store them on site if possible. It means you and your builder are protected from price changes throughout the build.

You should also go back through all correspondence from the job and any where you have increased the size/added extra features etc to the initial design will have increased the price. It's easy to overlook 'tiny' changes moving walls etc but the costs very quickly spiral. I try to highlight to clients a rough cost of changes when they make them (ie moving that wall 30cm will cost an extra £60k etc), because when it's all just lines on a page the reality of the prices can get lost.

Obviously you get rubbish architects and you could just be using one, but please try to not go in all guns blazing if you're not 100% sure. The vast majority of architects are trying their best to get the best possible house for their client, for the lowest amount of money. To then have the client turn on you for things completely out of your control is utterly demoralising.