Purchasing a house that’s been underpinned?

[HotChocolate16]

Good morning all

Wondered if I could get some advice.

We are purchasing a house (midlands). We offered asking price and got it. It is our dream house, perfect location, wouldn’t really need to move (although I would never say never). We’ve had our level 2 RICS survey back which says the house was underpinned. We are still awaiting our mortgage offer. On one of the conveyancing forms the vendor put that this was done in 2017 upon builders advice however she can’t find the paperwork for it but she paid for it herself in full.

From reading online about this, it seems loads of people wouldn’t purchase a house that’s been underpinned. It affects resale, insurance etc. I am thinking to potentially reduce my offer as from what I’ve read underpinning downvalues a house and the property was put on at market value the same as houses like that that haven’t been underpinned.

So what I’m asking is:

1. would this affect resale?
2. roughly how much more is insurance?
3. what would you do in this situation?

thank you!

I live on London clay, underpinning is common. You would struggle to find a house around here which isn't underpinned, insurance costs were the same (lightly higher excess for subsidence work) and houses in this road are sold the moment they hit the market both in good general markets and bad.

What sort of house/age is it and and what type of location? If its a popular area on clay then a house which is already underpinned can mean you don't have to worry about it in the future.

Sorry posted too soon, meant to add that one thing we did do was get a structural engineer's report on the underpinning and the state of the building - he did it at the same time as the survey for a small extra charge.

Are you sure it was underpinned? Normally there will be monitoring over time and a series of reports before deciding if underpinning is actually needed and then insurance pays. Its very expensive work, not something I'd have done on the say so of a builder and then pay out for myself.

As long as it's done properly then it wouldn't be an issue for me.

I'd be suspicious the vendor 'can't find the paperwork' for the work, and agree to get a structural surveyor to look to check it out.

On one of the conveyancing forms the vendor put that this was done in 2017 upon builders advice however she can’t find the paperwork for it but she paid for it herself in full.
Underpinning isn't in itself a problem. But the lack of a paper trail as to why it was done and who did it is very likely to cause you issues if you come to sell in the future. The lack of paperwork would have me walking away.

the property was put on at market value the same as houses like that that haven’t been underpinned
You don't know that they're not underpinned, although if no other local house isn't underpinned I'd be getting worried why this house has been, and "market value" is a wet finger guess at what someone might pay at best. Don't set too much store by this.

@HotChocolate16

You are completely wrong about underpinning. It’s a bonus if it’s been done. Far better for you. The house is now sound. To be certain the underpinning has taken place, snd is effective, I would appoint a structural engineer to evaluate the structure of the house for you. It is not a negative that work has been done at all and the house is now like any other house. That’s what underpinning is about.

What would worry me more is lack of info by the vendor. Anyone that’s had underpinning done will have survey reports and details of what’s been done. Plus correspondence with the house insurer! This is not a cheap job. So the structural engineer should look critically at the house to evaluate what, exactly, has been done. There should be evidence of the underpinning and making good. However if if all adds up, don’t worry about underpinning.

It may prove difficult to get buildings insurance. As they routinely ask if a house has a history of subsidence. At best they will hike their premium, at worst they will refuse to insure you.

So nobody mentioned the underpinning until you'd started the process and now the vendor can't find the paperwork? I would be very suspicious of all of this. I viewed one that had been underpinned and the estate agent was upfront about it from the start as he knew that some lenders might have issues with it and people would just withdraw their offers otherwise. Like others say, the underpinning itself is less of a concern than the EA and vendor not being transparent about it.

Does underpinning need building regs signoff? The vendor should be contacting the company that did the work for copies of the paperwork if she can't find it herself.

Hi - we were underpinned (London clay), and I agree with PP - the underpinning isn’t the issue, the lack of paper trail is. Also - you’d expect buildings insurance to have paid for it unless the house is uninsurable for some reason?

As @dubyalass says, the fact it wasn't mentioned and the paperwork from only 5-6 years ago can't be located would worry me. I'd be asking for as much information about the builders as possible & appointing a structural engineer. I'd also look to renegotiate a 3-5% discount on purchase price

Also agree with other PP - I made a virtue of the underpinning when we sold; it wouldn’t need doing on their watch, and they wouldn’t be on tenterhooks waiting for subsidence.

Yup - underpinning is a good thing! I can't understand why you think it wouldn't have been? It will have made the house more stable and less likely to encounter problems in the future.

However - the paperwork thing is ridiculous and suspicious. They either need to provide it, or you need a full investigation and report done on the underpinning which they must pay for (or take off the cost of the house).

Only then can you make a decision on whether the house is worth any investment, let alone asking price.

Thanks for your responses guys.

To answer some questions;

It is Nottingham, which I’ve been told is built on previous coal mining area or something and houses are prone to some movement

The vendor is an elderly lady I think, she has paperwork for everything except this. And yes we only found out now in the paperwork, it wasn’t mentioned before.

Quite worried now as it is our dream home. I may email the estate agent and ask her to ask the vendor to obtain the paperwork trail from wherever did the underpinning as there must be copies and a trail somewhere

Or correspondence with her insurance company. What about her structural engineer or the loss adjusters report? You need to get your own engineers report. Working for you. If there’s mining subsidence, is that an ongoing issue in that area? If so, get more info on that. This would be quite rare I think with deep mines. More likely to be a ground issue with trees and type of soil.

People are assuming that this would normally be paid for by the buildings insurer. Not everyone has buildings insurance. It's possible an older vendor may own the property outright and may not have chosen to take out buildings insurance (only the mortgage lender requires it).

Given that we now know that the property is in Nottinghamshire, has a Coal Mining Report been sought?

Is it possible that the underpinning was done through the Coal Mining Subsidence Compensation Scheme?

It is Nottingham, which I’ve been told is built on previous coal mining area or something and houses are prone to some movement
This isn't something to be vague about. If you're serious about this house you should have been taking steps to know these details.

I’ve requested the vendor go back to the company that did it and obtain paperwork. She does have buildings insurance as well.

Not sure about the coal mining report. How I I go about finding that out? We’ve just had searches put in so will be a few weeks until we get those back and raise enquiries

Not sure about the coal mining report. How I I go about finding that out? We’ve just had searches put in so will be a few weeks until we get those back and raise enquiries
Have you appointed a solicitor for the conveyancing yet? - get a local one that understands the area and its issues, not a call-centre suggested by the EA/mortgage broker. You need their advice now.

www.gov.uk/check-if-property-is-affected-by-coal-mining

If she has buildings insurance that should have covered any underpinning. You say elderly but just how elderly? Is it possible she was conned by a builder or misunderstood minor works to remediate eg a porch distorted by normal settlement?

Underpinning is expensive work - around here it can go easily into six figures and its a specialist job, not a regular builder's job.

You need the paperwork and agree if its a mining area you want the local knowledge and reports (tbh I'd always go for a local solicitor for conveyancing, every area has its glitches).

Oh and also it normally needs planning permission, especially in areas where it is common. You should be able to search your LA planning site for records on the property.

I am waiting on a call from my solicitor now to discuss, kinda gutted as I really don’t want to have to pull out :

It's part of buying a house - sometimes the one you think is the one turns out not to be. You'll find the right one,

Oh, and you may want to revise your offer on the basis of the information that you've only found out after it was made. This isn't unusual. Offers are usually Subject To Survey.

If it was underpinned by a reputable company they would have given a guarantee against the workmanship. I don’t really see what a survey will discover unless they start digging holes inside and out, which they won’t do.

Still waiting on the solicitor call but in the meantime I’ve emailed the EA and asked them to go back to the vendor and ask her to go to the company that did the work for her and request copies of any paperwork.

Spoke to the surveyor briefly who said a house that is underpinned doesn’t devalue a house really?

So surely if we get the relevant paperwork/any guarantees or even if we get a full structural engineering report to check the house over then that should hopefully be okay and sufficient paper trail to say the structure is fine if we were to ever resell?

I'm in London & underpinning is common but not super common. I only know one house amongst friends & family.

The difficulty is as you say people are put off by it so it becomes a "I don't want to buy, in case it puts off a future seller". I probably wouldn't buy even though logically the underpinned house is likely a safer bet & more houses will need it due to climate change.