Purchasing a house that’s been underpinned?

[HotChocolate16]

Good morning all

Wondered if I could get some advice.

We are purchasing a house (midlands). We offered asking price and got it. It is our dream house, perfect location, wouldn’t really need to move (although I would never say never). We’ve had our level 2 RICS survey back which says the house was underpinned. We are still awaiting our mortgage offer. On one of the conveyancing forms the vendor put that this was done in 2017 upon builders advice however she can’t find the paperwork for it but she paid for it herself in full.

From reading online about this, it seems loads of people wouldn’t purchase a house that’s been underpinned. It affects resale, insurance etc. I am thinking to potentially reduce my offer as from what I’ve read underpinning downvalues a house and the property was put on at market value the same as houses like that that haven’t been underpinned.

So what I’m asking is:

1. would this affect resale?
2. roughly how much more is insurance?
3. what would you do in this situation?

thank you!

Whilst you wait, some things to think about.

If the paperwork for the underpinning isn't available, what will you do? - are you prepared to walk away?

Who is going to pay for a structural engineering report if it comes to that? - are you prepared to walk away if it has adverse findings?

I think you need to stop thinking, "if we just do this, we can go ahead", and start thinking, "what needs to happen for me to be comfortable going ahead with this". It's time to put away the rose-tinted glasses and get quite hard-headed about this.

I think that if you get paperwork etc to prove that it was done correctly, there's no problem at all.

I've never heard of underpinning being anything other that a positive (with correct documentation that is), so that would be my only concern.

If she can provide the full paperwork I see no reason why you can't go ahead.

Our house is under pinned about 20 years ago - again, elderly owners, lost paperwork. I got a full survey done, which was all clear.

It hasn't made any difference to the insurance, I ticked the box to say it had been under pinned, but wasn't asked anything further and the premium didn't change from the initial quote. The insurance doesn't have any exclusions around further work either.

So for me, not a problem.

I guess I don’t know what I’d do if she doesn’t / can’t get the paperwork. My next steps would probably be getting a full structural report, I know I need to think about what I’d do if it came back with adverse findings as PP suggested.

What makes it harder is I hate where I’m living atm and am so desperate to move. Other than this underpinning thing, this house is perfect in every way. We have no intention to sell in future however it isn’t ruled out completely hence why I think I’m getting so hung up on this.

Rather than focus on the underpinning itself, just make sure to remind yourself that the issues are:

• You don't know why it needed to be done.
• You don't know who did it and how they did it.

Fill in those two blanks and you're in a better position to decide whether there's a likelihood of further issues, and whether you can trust the workmanship.

You also need to resolve the mining area issue. Which would normally have come up in the searches in any case. It's something your solicitor can help with, and you can put the postcode into the online checker on the link I posted earlier.

Underpinning does not need planning permission. There is no paper trail there.

@HotChocolate16 You would pay for a structural engineer. It would be worth it for peace of mind. The vendor should be able to say where the subsidence occurred. It’s likely it was a corner or a bay window. Or an extension. An engineer should be able to pinpoint what the damage was because it will show signs of repair. It’s possible to dig a couple of trial pits to look at the underpinning. This is in effect a concrete raft under the affected part of the building. They might even know if this is about mining. Definitely ask your solicitor to do mining subsidence searches. If you want this house, get professional help to asses if it’s now ok. It probably is.

Depends where you are. In my area it is a planning requirement that any initial underpinning includes a staged completion plan in case further work is needed.

I have the planning applications for mine along with all the rest of the documentation.

Thought I’d update everyone -

Ive spoken to my solicitor. She said that within the next week she is going to request that the vendor obtain the relevant paperwork if she can. Apparently she would have needed building regs to do the underpinning so there should be some trail there, and there also would be a follow up report on the work done. If the vendor isn’t able to obtain these then my solicitor is going to state that the vendor must take out an indemnity policy for the work done. Whilst it isn’t ideal if we ever wanted to resell, she said the indemnity policy could be transferred to a new buyer if we ever did sell so they would get cover there. Then it’s a case of what our lender requires in order to lend us the money. So still a bit of a waiting game over the next week or so.

Not sure how to feel about this as today is the first id ever heard of underpinning!

My views : underpinning in of itself is fine. I wouldn't reduce my offer purely because a house has been underpinned- that doesn't really make sense. I also wouldn't worry much about an indemnity as they arent worth much. The longer ago it was done, the better.

What I would have issue with is the lack of any sort of paper trail - reasons for underpinning, evidence of survey, Who did it, paperwork, monitoring evidence etc. Just the usual stuff. If nothing is forthcoming, I'd probably pull out, or reduce the offer significantly (I.e to the levels it would fetch at auction; 25%+) to cover the risk.

Does an indemnity not cover any issues with the work done if something were to go wrong in the future?

Yes I am hoping there is some sort of paper trail and it’s just that the vendor lost her copies but is able to obtain some more

I don’t think an indemnity is worth much with serious defects. Whats the point. You have no proof that any work was ever carried out!

Underpinning doesn’t devalue a house. Not underpinning is the big issue! That’s a big bill. So worrying about a house that has been repaired seems odd to me. Yes. It should have had building regs approval. It’s very odd that an older person doesn’t have details of this. Old people I know are careful.

Underpinning builds a concrete raft under a house that is subsiding. This essentially means it’s sinking. It’s foundations are not supporting it but usually it’s only one section of the house. Therefore you have to know why this happened. What evidence was there m? There should be details of the remedial works. It was probably monitored prior to works and if she’s insured, this is the usual route for money. Of course if it’s a mining issue it could have been paid for by an external agency.

Building regs might be a source of info. However it’s not a massive deal if you have a structural survey by an engineer who knows about buildings in this area. You don’t seem slightly reluctant to do this.

my property has been underpinned in 1991 no docs no paperwork should i get a full survey done as my solicitor has advised would be needed going further

@safwan Yes if you want to. Are you selling?

No I will not be selling yet

I wouldn’t bother until you do. Can you ask your council for any building control records? How do you know it was underpinned? What evidence is there?