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Are MN homeowners as deluded as HPCers?

245 replies

Cybercynic · 28/12/2022 08:03

Last few days there has been spike in the number of posts on potential house price declines. In the UK prices have already dipped more than 3% since August. I find it amusing that many HPCers are frequenting MN to report such news and potentially express glee on those that have bought.

However, even more amusing is the response of home owners suggesting how prickly they are to the remote possibility of house price declines. (PS: I am a homeowner and bought 20 years ago. While I have made equity gains over the years, I support overall declines in prices otherwise I feel my kids will be forever renting in this country).

While I hold no brief for doomsayers and think most of those are crazies, I believe the homeowners on this forum are turning increasingly prickly at facts and they offer the following standard responses to prospect of price reductions:

Response#1: House is not an investment it is a home. OR if you buy for long term you will always be okay

Counter: Ok then stop worrying about what doomsayers say. Let the prices decline by 10-25% and be okay with it.

Response#2: UK prices will never go down because it is an island and we just 'love' immigration

Counter: Please check out what is happening in Australia and New Zealand. Both factors apply there and they already have >10% yearly declines so far and more is expected

Response#3: If prices decline I will simply refuse to sell. Nobody can force me to sell.

Counter: Yes, you don’t need to sell because you can refuse to participate in the market. However, that does not stop price decline just as prices went up even when you refused to sell your own property in a rising market. House prices are determined at margins. Valuations are based on comparable transactions (whether you sell or nor). Unless there is a sellers strike announced similar to the train strike next week, not sure how this argument stands.

Response#4: There wont be any re-possessions

Counter: Agreed there will be few repossessions. It takes a long time to repossess and therefore, Banks will work with borrowers to find ways to make sure homes are not taken away. But one does not need forced sales to price declines. Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Sweden have all seen declines in the last 1 year without repossessions. And as I said earlier, UK has had declines >3% since Aug. And we are not even in recession yet officially. House prices are a function of affordability and I for one do think that era of <1% interest rate is over and average will hover around 4-5% for some time and with those rates you cannot have rapid growth.

Response#5: If one hopes for price reductions throughout, one must be a horrible person 'cause some people will feel pain

Counter: HPI has caused more pain to generations. And therefore, please explain a situation when we can have affordable housing without price declines. Affordability either comes with consistent wage growth and that aint happening without rampant inflation and resulting interest rate increases. So please let us know what advise they have for the younger generation to become home owners and who want affordable housing. And please do not suggest council housing since you will need to first check the govt finances to make that suggestion

OP posts:
Notonyournellykelly · 28/12/2022 11:46

bibbif · 28/12/2022 11:45

@Notonyournellykelly I'm not sure what you are going on about? I literally posted saying I don't mind my house losing value...

@bibbif you "literally" posted quoting me and saying it was "BATSHIT". So you can do on with your faux wide eyed act.

Nimbostratus100 · 28/12/2022 11:49

Cybercynic · 28/12/2022 11:32

I guess you forgot to read in detail my post. It just exposes the defensiveness of both doomsayers and people like yourself. Nowhere did I say I want more people to be upset. I just pointed out both sides are hypocritical. Do not project your own bitterness on to others.

where is @Notonyournellykelly defensive or bitter? Noone is defensive or bitter except you, OP, who seems to think everyone should be upset, and are quite upset that none is

RudsyFarmer · 28/12/2022 11:50

Some houses are falling. I think new builds are struggling in some areas and flats I know took a huge price tumble during covid. With the energy crisis I suspect poorly insulated older homes will become undesirable but I think houses overall won’t crash.

Cybercynic · 28/12/2022 11:51

Nimbostratus100 · 28/12/2022 11:49

where is @Notonyournellykelly defensive or bitter? Noone is defensive or bitter except you, OP, who seems to think everyone should be upset, and are quite upset that none is

Thanks for your enlightening addition to the thread. You are a wise soul to recognize others' bitterness. Stay well.

OP posts:
Notonyournellykelly · 28/12/2022 11:54

Oh honestly it's like trying to converse with a mule. Completely pointless

Cybercynic · 28/12/2022 11:54

Notonyournellykelly · 28/12/2022 11:54

Oh honestly it's like trying to converse with a mule. Completely pointless

Feelings are mutual here.

OP posts:
cobblers123 · 28/12/2022 11:54

There are five properties for sale where I am, south coast, in two roads that are very popular normally, excellent schools being a big factor. One has Sold board, one has Sale Agreed and three have just For Sale.

A year ago they would all have been snapped up in days so I do think that prices are coming down a bit. Also some are definitely over priced and could probably do with reducing the price.

bloodyeverlastinghell · 28/12/2022 11:54

I suppose I'd be in group one but I bought ten years ago. I suspect even with a decent drop I'd probably be ok. I feel for those in negative equity though; I don't think there are any easy answers. You can't have people earning 20K a year with cheap flats on at £150K+ This happens in Edinburgh where I am from. People get stuck paying high market rents and end up getting UC topups etc.

IMO we need to invest massively in social housing, lifelong secure tenancies with affordable rents. Sheltered housing for the elderly. It makes no sense to me for the state to pay private landlords propping up house prices. There was a UC thread on here the other day and UC were paying over £14K a year rent on a flat. That's £280K for the next twenty years for those children to grow up in insecure accomodation, higher with rent rises and inflation.

I would personally be amazed if the cost of building and maintaining a block of flats over the next 20 years was more than £280k per unit.Possibly this would reduce market prices as people could be moved to social housing and market rents would reduce causing buy to let landlords to leave the market. Overall it'd be worth it though surely?

bibbif · 28/12/2022 11:55

@Notonyournellykelly I said you were batshit because you posted the below...

"I'm not sure why you've made this thread. It whiffs of bitterness tbh as if you're upset people aren't crying over price drops."

"Why would it make you happy for people to be more upset about it? That's honestly quite worrying."

I don't think the above is quite the same as saying "I don't mind if my house drops in value" but I'm not going to argue with crazy you 😜

NotDavidTennant · 28/12/2022 11:56

Why are the people who start these kinds of threads always so obnoxious?

JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn · 28/12/2022 11:56

I bought my house to live in... not to sell so it's irrelevant what it's worth. I actually have not idea what it is worth.

bibbif · 28/12/2022 11:56

IMO we need to invest massively in social housing, lifelong secure tenancies with affordable rents. Sheltered housing for the elderly. It makes no sense to me for the state to pay private landlords propping up house prices

Yes & we have an huge issue with the ageing population & not enough suitable accommodation.

Reasonablereasonableness · 28/12/2022 12:00

Someone helpfully explained what HPC stands for.

I still don't know what an HPCer is?

IncessantNameChanger · 28/12/2022 12:01

I don't get it. Unless your remortgaging with a bad ltv surely it's irrelevant? If it drops by 20% and your still priced out of the market its still irrelevant.

The only people I feel for is private renters and ftb.

Houses will never be free or available on who deserves them most basis . All of the statements and retorts in your op are true. But if you own why get ruffled by the conversations?

No one knows what will happen. I think there will be repossessions but if anyone thinks the poor will benefit, I suspect property mangers will benefit the most.

bibbif · 28/12/2022 12:01

this is a guess but house price crasher?

Notonyournellykelly · 28/12/2022 12:02

bibbif · 28/12/2022 11:55

@Notonyournellykelly I said you were batshit because you posted the below...

"I'm not sure why you've made this thread. It whiffs of bitterness tbh as if you're upset people aren't crying over price drops."

"Why would it make you happy for people to be more upset about it? That's honestly quite worrying."

I don't think the above is quite the same as saying "I don't mind if my house drops in value" but I'm not going to argue with crazy you 😜

You have conveniently cut off the part where I explain that I don't care if property prices drop. It may even work out to my advantage. I wonder why you did that 🤔?

Notonyournellykelly · 28/12/2022 12:02

bibbif · 28/12/2022 11:55

@Notonyournellykelly I said you were batshit because you posted the below...

"I'm not sure why you've made this thread. It whiffs of bitterness tbh as if you're upset people aren't crying over price drops."

"Why would it make you happy for people to be more upset about it? That's honestly quite worrying."

I don't think the above is quite the same as saying "I don't mind if my house drops in value" but I'm not going to argue with crazy you 😜

You have conveniently cut off the part where I explain that I don't care if property prices drop. It may even work out to my advantage. I wonder why you did that 🤔?

Notonyournellykelly · 28/12/2022 12:02

bibbif · 28/12/2022 11:55

@Notonyournellykelly I said you were batshit because you posted the below...

"I'm not sure why you've made this thread. It whiffs of bitterness tbh as if you're upset people aren't crying over price drops."

"Why would it make you happy for people to be more upset about it? That's honestly quite worrying."

I don't think the above is quite the same as saying "I don't mind if my house drops in value" but I'm not going to argue with crazy you 😜

You have conveniently cut off the part where I explain that I don't care if property prices drop. It may even work out to my advantage. I wonder why you did that 🤔?

JustAJokeLikeOnTopGear · 28/12/2022 12:03

Using initialisms without explaining them is really unhelpful.

Notonyournellykelly · 28/12/2022 12:04

bibbif · 28/12/2022 11:55

@Notonyournellykelly I said you were batshit because you posted the below...

"I'm not sure why you've made this thread. It whiffs of bitterness tbh as if you're upset people aren't crying over price drops."

"Why would it make you happy for people to be more upset about it? That's honestly quite worrying."

I don't think the above is quite the same as saying "I don't mind if my house drops in value" but I'm not going to argue with crazy you 😜

The part where I have explained that I don't especially care about property prices is in the paragraph you conveniently cut off 🤔

crisscrosscringle · 28/12/2022 12:05

I'm in Essex and house prices here are stagnating and stuff isn't selling as quickly but . Our town is popular with Londoners moving out and buying family homes so it may take a while for them to fall here but seems inevitable.

That being said, I can't say I think about it much. We have no plans to move for at least 11 years and we'll be mortgage free by then and likely to move to a cheaper part of the country not so near to London. I consider us to be very lucky that we are somewhat in control of our own destiny when it comes to our home and worry about my friends who rent with no prospect of getting on the housing ladder.

BellatrixLestrangesHeatedCurlers · 28/12/2022 12:05

Your post history shows you're obsessed with house related shit....

Notonyournellykelly · 28/12/2022 12:05

Ugh repeat posts. Server was being weird

bibbif · 28/12/2022 12:06

You have conveniently cut off the part where I explain that I don't care if property prices drop. It may even work out to my advantage. I wonder why you did that

because that's not batshit & I had made a similar point upthread. Your opening part was batshit though, i'm not sure what you are not comprehending 🤷🏻‍♀️

Soothsayer1 · 28/12/2022 12:08

@Cybercynic
I read your posts thoroughly and I found it interesting, thank you
I think people are only just starting to get their heads around the fact that house prices are affected by the cost of borrowing that it's more complicated than just supply and demand.
Low interest rates have persisted for so long that it's seen as the New normal, there are arguments that interest rates represent the cost of time or something like that and they need to be around 5% for things to function properly
Or maybe we are in a new paradigm now? I worry that we will end up all living in tiny cages like in Hong Kong 😔