Any structural engineers about?

[Worriedslope]

We have just bought a new house after a long search. I wasn’t 100% sure about the house, husband persuaded me to put an offer in which was accepted.

Anyway, the house was built in 1960s/ 1970s. Sometime not long after this, an extension was built. It is built on a hillside.

When we viewed the property, I noticed that floor did not feel even in the upstairs hallway which was part of the extension. It was noticeably sloping and the bedroom and bathroom in that part of the house didn’t feel ‘right’ underfoot. I also noticed that the bathroom door was kept open by a stone.

We commissioned a surveyor to do a Home Buyers survey. We had initially asked him to do a structural survey but he said he’d do a home buyers first and then advise if that was necessary. I’m actually not sure if he does structural surveys?

Anyway the report came back stating that the house was structurally sound/ solid. It mentions that floor is ‘levelish’, but obviously nothing major was noted. I found the report reassuring as I thought obviously if I had noticed the sloping surely they would have mentioned it in the report. I still find it strange it wasn’t specifically mentioned as it is very obvious. I’m also annoyed because we specifically asked him about this and he didn’t respond, now kicking myself for not pushing more.

Since getting the keys, I’ve become extremely worried about this. We’ve been able to have a look ourselves with a spirit level and the floor and window sills in the small bedroom are sloping. To spirit level we used is (I think either 60cm or 80cm), and to bring it to level you need to pick it up and 1-2cm.

We have a friend who is in the trade and he thinks it is settlement from when the extension was first done. Which is good in that it means it’s hopefully not subsidence, but still leaves us with this issue of the sloping floors. The door frames look skeewiff too. The door in the bathroom was being held open with a stone because otherwise it slides shut. I’ve also just noticed this evening that another door upstairs is difficult to close. It’s along the same line as the sloping, although the spirit level seemed ok there so not sure if just crappy door (the whole place is rather shabby).

BTW the first floor part of this extension feels a bit sloppy too but not to the same extent as the first floor.

I’m really hoping someone might be able to provide me with some reassurance. Can we just level the floor? I have barely slept a wink and am so stressed. Please be kind, I am struggling.

A Home Buyers survey counts the walls. If the answer's 4 they report everything is ok.

Get someone in to have a proper look.

Thanks @DogInATent I have emailed a structural engineer. Worried absolutely sick. Also pissed off as the surveyor told us that he would recommend a structural survey if needed. I just wish I had pushed harder.

@Worriedslope the chances are it's old settlement, but no one can reassure you of that without seeing the property. Floors can be levelled using different methods, and doors can be re-hung.

@DogInATent thank you. Hopefully that’s all it is.

I feel awful as am panicking and crying and I’m really struggling to keep happy for the kids, not feeling Christmas spirit.

Oh god I do sympathise, emotions are all over the place when you have just bought a house 'buyers remorse'. Doesn't sound like there is too much cracking in the external walls so that is good right? Might you feel slightly better once you book the structural survey as then you have done what you need to do IYSWIM.

It's survived last fifty years@Worriedslope so it's likely a cosmetic issue. The estate agent would probably describe it as 'character'. Shim the hinges on the sticky door. It's a simple fix and will give you confidence that the other issues can be sorted.

This is us!
Also a 1960s house built on a hillside.
Ours was caused by the internal wall not having adequate foundations. The outside ones were absolutely fine, but everything was gradually slopping down towards the middle of the house.
I'm afraid we ended up having to have the central internal wall taken out, new foundations/RSJ etc put in and the wall rebuilt.
While in some ways it was cosmetic, if left, it would have meant we would have found it difficult to sell when the time comes.

@starpatch Thank you. I really am a complete an utter wreck, I just want to go home to old house and forget this whole thing. No, nothing obvious in terms of cracking and there is an undercroft which is under the area where the sloping is and that does ok but obviously I’m no expert expert. I thought there might be a bit of warping in the roof away from a dormer but not sure. I honestly feel so sick with worry I can barely eat or sleep. This is probably all outing but I have just found that there is a structural engineer on our new road so have emailed them! I just hope they get back to me before Christmas, maybe they’d be willing to pop across the road and give it a quick look for me.

@DogInATent yes that’s what my DH keeps saying. I thought that too, if it was an old cottage it would be character but not sure it’s seen that way in a ‘newer’ building! Thank you.

@GreenShadow oh God that is worrying. Ours is sloping to the back of the house. Can I ask how much it cost and whether you were able to claim on insurance? I’ve already been googling about suing surveyors but according to a mumsnet thread I read this is notoriously difficult!

A 1960s build is only a 'newer' building in the same way that 1990 only seems a few years ago!

Ours was something like £30K a few years ago.
We couldn't claim on our insurance for the stupid reason we didn't mention it when we renewed and it had obviously been there for sometime....

How old is the plaster/decoration OP?
If it looks fairly old and there are no major cracks internally or externally I wouldn't worry. Do you know if any external brickwork mortar has been repointed? Compare it with neighbouring houses. A 1960s house should still be 'original'.

If it was freshly refurbished for sale & there are no major cracks, again I wouldn't worry yet, & just keep an eye on it & see if anything appears in the next 6 months. No point worrying about something that might not be a problem!

It could be as simple as shocking yet sound build quality. I've seen an upstairs landing on a 1980s estate house with a 30mm dip.

@GreenShadow thanks, oh that is annoying! To be honest I’m worried that it makes the whole house worthless so would probably be quite happy if it was ‘only’ £30k to fix although I definitely don’t have that kind of money lying around.

@DogInATent very true! Maybe in 10 years it will be considered a period house with some character, one can hope!

My MIL has just insisted I have a glass of rosé. I honestly feel like I won’t sleep a wink until someone sees it and confirms that it’s ‘ok’.

If you have no cracks on the outside/ inside ( I don’t mean hairline plaster cracks). Then the house is not going anywhere. It could be settlement from when the house was first built but it could also ( more likely) just be shoddy building work from when it was built. Back in the 60’s/70’s some things were not built to a great standard. I think you’ll find your worrying about nothing , it’s just new house nerves 😬

@FurierTransform no the plaster etc is old. There is hairline type crack across the ceiling in the hallway from the point where is starts sloping. We also had a local builder round before we bought and he also thought it was settlement, he said to my DH some of it was “just typical 70s build quality”, I.e. a bit shoddy. This builder seems to be very highly regarded locally and is very experienced, and I know he does work on houses that require underpinning so I hope he knows subsidence when he sees it. But yes I reckon it is in the magnitude of the 2-3 cm across the small bedroom. It is very noticeable which is why I just can’t understand why it wasn’t even mentioned in the survey. Not sure about the mortar repointing thing, would this be obvious?

@Diyextension thank you, yes as above I think that might be it. I’ve noticed other dodgy things since we got the keys, things that you just wouldn’t notice on a viewing- but I suppose that’s the case with any house. I do have form for worrying. I was going to say for worrying about house things but so am a very worried person in general 😬. DH is the opposite. When we bought our last house I also worried a huge amount about the fact that the extension had been built over a sewer/ manhole, although the manhole was removed and replaced. In the end I got a very reassuring email from the water company and we sold the house on a flash! Loved that place 😭

My 100+ year old end terrace had a substantial extension (almost doubling the size of the house) in the 1980s, and the floor upstairs slopes down towards the extension, probably about the same as yours from what you've said, but it hasn't caused any problems. The downstairs was a garage but I had it converted, so I can't tell if that sloped beforehand. I assume that the extension is holding the house up - that and the 18" thick external walls on the old part!

We too live in a 70’s house on the side of a hill( upside down house ) we are slowly renovating it and the build quality is as your builder says “ typical 70’s”.
The upstairs floor joists are so uneven ( up and down ) you can feel it when you walk along, there is nothing structurally wrong with them they just need all levelling off. Every window cill has a crack in the wall underneath it, it’s where they used to drive a wooden wedge into the block work to fix the cill down too and over time it cracks the plaster. We’ve got shoddy door frames like you, but worse of all is every ceiling I’ve taken down so far has about ten plasterboard nails in each sheet ( think lots of cracked ceilings ) , it does make it easy to pull them down thought 🙂.

@maximist I think it’s quite acceptable in a house of that age! It bothers me a lot, it makes me feel like I’m walking around on a ferry. I desperately just want it not to be structural and get the floors and doors sorted asap.

@Diyextension there are so many things that are dodge. All the windows have mould growing around them. Can’t afford to replace them all, at least not all in one go with everything else that needs doing. I have always been against new builds but think I might go for one if we move again, I can’t handle this stress! Bloody hillsides, was seduced by the views!

DH is a chartered building surveyor. I mentioned this thread to him. He says that if you are not happy with the Home Buyer report you should complain to the surveyor/ firm that produced it. State that the floors are not level, and you are worried about structural damage and feel this should have been checked in the report, particularly as you had pointed it out.
Might be worth a try....

@ProperVexed thank you. I have spoken to a structural engineer this morning on the phone, it was reassuring but I still want him to come and have a look. The original surveyor is coming back next week as well. I feel like I should try to get him to pay for structural engineer call out, it’s not cheap!!

Structural Engineers, if MIStructE, take years to train beyond their degree. A bit like hospital consultants. They shouldn’t be cheap. So check the qualifications and experience of who you are talking to. If they design skyscrapers, they might not be experienced in residential housing issues. Lots of them don’t have practical experience of building issues on a small scale. Also check they are Chartered Engineers. Not anything less.

DH is FIStructE (Fellow: above member category) with decades of residential background. So you need someone like him. The truth is it could be any number of issues. Could be inadequate foundations, subsidence, heave or any number of faults with the building. So no one here can possibly know. If the extension is below the house, is it sloping away from the existing house? Have I got that right? This indicates poor foundations and ties to the original house. No newish extension should slope.

Do not worry if you are insured. Your Structural engineer can advocate for you to get the best outcome from your insurers. They will work out what repairs are needed. You have made the mistake of trusting a builder who probably has no qualifications at all. You do need expert advice. You will have to pay out but you should be covered for repairs. Was the original surveyor actually RICS qualified? He sounds very poor to me. However you should have paid for a structural survey if you were worried but he certainly should have been clear about what he found.

It’s also a mistake for posters to say that just because a house has stood for X years, it will be fine. Things go wrong. Corners are cut. Design (foundations, how the new building moves with the original
building) isn’t good enough and also build quality can be suspect. So do get a Structural Engineer who knows about faults in residential buildings and doesn’t just sit with a computer program all day!

Thanks @TizerorFizz . Yes the surveyor was RICS chartered. We would have gone for a structural survey but he said he would recommend one if it was needed. Kicking myself now! We had to get home insurance to buy the house so I hope anything like that would indeed be covered. I spoke to a structural engineer this morning and he was reassuring, will come and look in the New Year. Yes it is sloping away from the existing house. The surveyor I spoke to said it’s probably poor building work and due to settlement but that it would only be an issue if was continuing to move. I think the extension is probably in the region of 50 years old. I will have a look for a Fellow.

I was worried about it until he said it was structurally sound. We had enquired with the vendors about uneven flooring and they said something about having removed the carpet underlay or something, so on the basis of that plus the survey I thought it was just a bit of a wonky floor.