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Original poster

Seller refusing to get retrospective planning permission

95 replies

Goldi321 · 15/12/2022 16:16

Hi, I'm buying a house that has had a kitchen/dining room knocked through with removal of load bearing wall and insertion of RSJ within the last few years. The seller has not got a completion certificate for building regs and is making me out to be the unreasonable one by insisting on it.

The sale has been dragging on for 6 months now- back when we offered the market was very different and I had to put in a way above asking price offer to secure the house. Obviously, the market has now changed and I'm not sure there is the same level of interest as there was back in the summer when the property market was on fire.

The seller and their estate agents and solicitors are arguing that it is not needed they seem to think that because they have planning permission they don't need building regs. My reading and advice from surveyor is that it is.

I'm thinking about pulling out. Just wondering if anyone can offer advice? Would you do the same? Everyone is making me out to be very unreasonable for insisting on this paperwork that will cause me a headache when I don't have it in many years when I try to sell.

The seller has, of course, told me I am welcome to pay for a structural engineer to go in to inspect the work but I don't see why I should have to do this.

OP posts:
User963 · 15/12/2022 18:05

We had a non load bearing wall knocked down and builder said we didn’t need building regs. The reason being that they live in exact the same house and when the building inspector came round (to inspect the load bearing wall they also had knocked down) he said why don’t you knock the non load bearing wall down too and didn’t want it adding to the building regs. However I realise we should have had building regs anyway. They used the right steel etc and I took photos of it all before it was plastered over. We’re not planning to sell but this post has spurred me on to get it sorted. Is it really difficult to get retrospective building regs? Not sure why the seller won’t. Does anyone know if they would accept the photos or would want to remove some plaster anyway.

dieselKiller · 15/12/2022 18:06

That’s very frustrating! I hope you get this sorted to your satisfaction one way or another. Give them some short deadlines and see how they do. I’m sure it would be disappointing if they forced you to pull out, but at least you’d be doing it in a falling market.

Original poster
Goldi321 · 15/12/2022 18:13

@User963 id check but I’m not sure you need it for a non load bearing wall. If you do, my parents had to do it recently and it took 4 days in total to sort. They had to chip away A bit of plaster but it was easily repaired.

OP posts:
User963 · 15/12/2022 18:14

@Goldi321 thanks!

tara66 · 15/12/2022 18:17

The market has changed. If you have not signed anything you can walk away. They should be trying to please you. Drop your offer by 30% or so - plus insist on the documentation you require. Prices are going to continue falling for a few years - it seems.

AtomicRitual · 15/12/2022 18:32

This page says that you can apply for "Regularisation" for retrospective approval for work already carried out without consent, from your local authority.

I've just checked my local council and they list their charges based on the cost of the works undertaken. Not sure how much it costs to remove a wall and replace an RSJ, but, for the sake of argument £2,001 to £5,000 of works costs £387.

If the vendors are not willing to pay £387 to secure a cash buyer in a market where prices are dropping I'd assume one of two things:

  1. they don't want to move really; or
  2. they've got something to hide.

Either way you're on to a losing battle OP. Unless it's the house of your dreams I'd cut my losses and run (and find something probably cheaper now).

Original poster
Goldi321 · 15/12/2022 18:42

@AtomicRitual thank you, I agree. DH is dragging his feet hoping there will be a resolution to this but all I see is wasted time and bitterness that this has cast over our house move for me.

I am the one saying all of the above and very suspicious. If you had it done for 1 part of the work you know it is a thing you need to do.

I think they are not wanting to pay anything but I’m not paying anything. If they want to sell their house they should pay. I have paid above asking price for a newly refurbished, completed house. I am not prepared to pay a penny more.

OP posts:
Skeldale · 15/12/2022 18:51

If you proceed without building regulations any buildings insurance you get on the property will likely be invalid. Therefore any remedial works you may need in future will not be covered. Now worse case scenario is house falls down (unlikely) the cost of a rebuild would not be covered. But there are degrees of problems - it could just be a dirty great crack appears which makes everything above it insecure and again remedial works would not be covered.

Walk away now.

BatshitCrazyWoman · 15/12/2022 18:52

Have you exchanged?

I'm very unemotional about house buying, I'd tell them that you were withdrawing from the purchase, as they are being obstructive about something important.

Definitely ignore the estate agent the seller employed, and who will be paid by them, they are not impartial! Your solicitor sounds a bit ropey, too.

rainingsnoring · 15/12/2022 18:52

I would pull out based on everything you have said.
They sound very difficult and possibly have something to hide. Why on earth would you not try to be helpful and spend a relatively small amount of money if you wanted to sell your house.
In addition, as you know, the market has fallen in the last 6 months in most areas so you are already paying more than it is worth. If they re-market, they will likely get quite a bit less so it makes no logical sense for them to continue to be obstructive.
You will find something else, probably at a better price and hopefully with more reasonable sellers.

rainingsnoring · 15/12/2022 18:53

BatshitCrazyWoman · 15/12/2022 18:52

Have you exchanged?

I'm very unemotional about house buying, I'd tell them that you were withdrawing from the purchase, as they are being obstructive about something important.

Definitely ignore the estate agent the seller employed, and who will be paid by them, they are not impartial! Your solicitor sounds a bit ropey, too.

Agreed. I wouldn't listen to their EA/ solicitor. They are clearly talking nonsense on behalf of their clients.

pompei8309 · 15/12/2022 18:54

Goldi321 · 15/12/2022 16:16

Hi, I'm buying a house that has had a kitchen/dining room knocked through with removal of load bearing wall and insertion of RSJ within the last few years. The seller has not got a completion certificate for building regs and is making me out to be the unreasonable one by insisting on it.

The sale has been dragging on for 6 months now- back when we offered the market was very different and I had to put in a way above asking price offer to secure the house. Obviously, the market has now changed and I'm not sure there is the same level of interest as there was back in the summer when the property market was on fire.

The seller and their estate agents and solicitors are arguing that it is not needed they seem to think that because they have planning permission they don't need building regs. My reading and advice from surveyor is that it is.

I'm thinking about pulling out. Just wondering if anyone can offer advice? Would you do the same? Everyone is making me out to be very unreasonable for insisting on this paperwork that will cause me a headache when I don't have it in many years when I try to sell.

The seller has, of course, told me I am welcome to pay for a structural engineer to go in to inspect the work but I don't see why I should have to do this.

You don’t need planning permission for knocking down an internal wall but you do need a building regs certificate

Honeyroar · 15/12/2022 18:54

I’d just pull out. It all sounds suspicious. We knocked through two rooms (RSJ etc) and had to get building regs but not planning permission.

Grumpybutfunny · 15/12/2022 19:05

So they have BR for the rest of the work and visible RSG for something that was missed off the certificate? If it was a concealed RSG pushed into the ceiling I would want to certificate to know it's there but if it's visible just ask for the receipt for it so you know it's the correct specification as per the structural engineers drawing and then say because they won't go for retrospective you want an appropriate figure off your offer. Next time you come to decorate remove some of the plaster and get retrospective BR if you desire.

I think the property market is slowly shifting from the OMG it's a massive purchase I need XYZ to a more risk accepting market. So if they are a younger seller who would accept it on the next property you might struggle to force them.

Our mortgage is with Halifax they were happy with indemnity insurance for an extension that doesn't meet BR. 9 months later we have just finished the remedial work and have a BR cert your post has just reminded me I need to send them the cert haven't been chased for it once

Original poster
Goldi321 · 15/12/2022 19:29

We haven't exchanged, no. We've been pushing for BR for months now. What with life keeping us busy and solicitor being difficult to contact time just seems to have slipped away and I'm now sat here thinking that we thought being in for Christmas was very realistic and now we are no closer than we were a few months ago.

Planning permission was for an extension but plans were also drawn up and planning seems to have included this knock through and beam.

OP posts:
Original poster
Goldi321 · 15/12/2022 19:31

I'm not willing to take a risk on this without it being inspected by BR. Worst case scenario I end up with £££ of repairs to make it up to standard/ an unsellable house in the future. This is my life savings we are talking about.

Indemnity insurance null and void, although they have already said they wouldn't be prepared to pay, because the council has been alerted to it (not by us).

OP posts:
Original poster
Goldi321 · 15/12/2022 19:34

Also reading up this would be an issue now for any buyer. They will never be able to get an indemnity for this work (not that I think the indemnity is worth the paper it is written on for what it covers).

OP posts:
cupofdecaf · 15/12/2022 19:45

For a load bearing wall I'd say you need to insist on building regs. However we bought a house that was missing building regs for a conservatory. Nothing tests on it, we're planning to re do it anyway. There's also a garage that's been made into a room, nothing structural was done so not so bothered. Structural stuff I'd be concerned about.

Fireflygal · 15/12/2022 19:58

There is no good reason why they avoided BR and sign off - if they didn't employ a structural engineer the builder may have guessed at the RSJ to reduce costs.

A builder recently told me they had to retrofit a 9m steel because of previous faulty work. It really does happen

Did they do building regs and not sign off or completely avoided applying for regs?

vitahelp · 15/12/2022 20:01

I wouldn’t proceed without building regs.. also the removal of a load bearing wall is concerning. I hope you can find something else.

DaSilvaP · 15/12/2022 20:01

WhenisitmyturntobePM · 15/12/2022 16:26

Has anyone suggested indemnity insurance? This could be a solution if you’re still keen to go ahead and the seller is prepared to pay for it.

They are pressuring you because they can sense the sale slipping away in a challenging market. Do not let them - walk away if you have to.

Fat lot of good any insurance is going to do for you if the first floor falls on your head without warning.

Making sure that it won't happen in the first place might be a better idea?
I'm always amazed by people who think that theft insurance is a valid alternative to a decent lock.

WhenisitmyturntobePM · 15/12/2022 20:06

@DaSilvaP a couple of people have pointed out that indemnity insurance won’t work in this situation, which I can see now. All of them were much nicer about it than you though.

ethelredonagoodday · 15/12/2022 21:22

Yep I think you should stick to your guns on this OP. My husband is a partner in an engineering company and he has had his best guy at work on the calcs for our extension. It's too much of a big deal to not get right, and then not get signed off!!!!

Mirabai · 15/12/2022 21:31

Your sellers cannot now sell this house until they have it signed off by the council. The least worrisome scenario is that they don’t want to pay/are concerned about the timescale of getting it done - it will take a couple of months.

So - I would pull out and look around for something else - if, in a couple of months, you haven’t found something you prefer, you can re-offer.

I would also invest in a better solicitor.

rainingsnoring · 15/12/2022 21:34

They obviously don't want to play ball. Will you pull out or proceed against advice?