Seller refusing to get retrospective planning permission

[Goldi321]

Hi, I'm buying a house that has had a kitchen/dining room knocked through with removal of load bearing wall and insertion of RSJ within the last few years. The seller has not got a completion certificate for building regs and is making me out to be the unreasonable one by insisting on it.

The sale has been dragging on for 6 months now- back when we offered the market was very different and I had to put in a way above asking price offer to secure the house. Obviously, the market has now changed and I'm not sure there is the same level of interest as there was back in the summer when the property market was on fire.

The seller and their estate agents and solicitors are arguing that it is not needed they seem to think that because they have planning permission they don't need building regs. My reading and advice from surveyor is that it is.

I'm thinking about pulling out. Just wondering if anyone can offer advice? Would you do the same? Everyone is making me out to be very unreasonable for insisting on this paperwork that will cause me a headache when I don't have it in many years when I try to sell.

The seller has, of course, told me I am welcome to pay for a structural engineer to go in to inspect the work but I don't see why I should have to do this.

Ask yourself, if they’re prepared to lie about it being a load- bearing wall, what else might they be lying about? I’d walk away.

When we were selling my Gran's house we (as vendors) paid for the structural survey to investigate issues highlighted by buyers structural survey. When we had a loft extension done on our house almost 10 years ago now it was arranged on our behalf by the builders and we were given the certificate as part of the sign off. Same when we replaced the conservatory. Building regs always included by all we approached for a quotes as standard. Makes me think maybe the builders they employed were not very professional? Ask your surveyor to refer a decent inspector. Then get the cost of getting it done knocked off the price or you walk away.

The fact that they are being so obstructive sounds like a massive warning sign to me.

Someone did a calculation for the steel beam.
Someone knocked down the wall and inserted the beam.
Someone took the rubble away.
None of these are cheap compared to the cost of getting Building Regs for the work.

From what I understand (from watching too many property shows) is that they just need to take some plaster off so someone official can confirm the size of the steel. It's not a biggie, and the fact they risk loosing their buyer over it is a massive red flag.

@Nomoredamnmats especially when the lie is so obvious! It’s a bloody big beam!

I can't understand why they won't get the work signed off it's a simple matter of them contacting the council planning, having recently sold a property both ours and buyers solicitors wanted all relevant paperwork to do with the extension.

TBH I'd walk away as it could cause problems if you sell in the future.

@JamMakingWannaBe yes,exactly. We had the same done last year and it cost £300 for building regs which Was a drop in the ocean compared to the Building costs

There's so many houses on the market right now and sellers are getting desperate. You'll be able to find a better property as you can negotiate down the price. I certainly wouldn't continue buying a house that went for over asking price with this problem.

You are completely correct and they and the EA are wrong.

Many years ago I pulled out of a house purchase for the exact same reasons. Internal load bearing wall taken down, plus a chimney breast. No buildings reg sign off. The vendor was a builder himself and kept trying to blind me with his "superior" knowledge. I went to the council myself to check and make sure of my position as the buyer.

In the end I walked away and bought another house. I looked later on rightmove and saw that the original property sold for considerably less than the asking price I had offered and many, many months afterwards if not a year later.

The EA is well aware of the position on this and is just trying their luck with you.
I would want BR sign off or no purchase for me.

I know it's uncomfortable being made out to be the unreasonable one but it doesn't matter what they think of you. What matters is why they haven't got it and why they are refusing to get it. It sounds fishy. Perhaps they should have got planning for that part of the building and didn't, or perhaps they haven't done the work properly and are therefore are reluctant to get it.

You have to ask yourself why, in this market, they are not falling over themselves to push the sale through.

Be determined to see it through. Stop speaking to them so they can't affect your sense of yourself. Put everything in writing. Email the estate agent stating either they get it, or you walk. If they get it, then good. If they refuse, then you know something's wrong.

Good luck with it anyway.

If you want the property, I’d give them a 24 or 48 hours deadline for agreeing to get the building regs cert and providing an estimate of when the cert would be available. If they don’t agree, withdraw your offer. If the date that you can reasonably expect the cert doesn’t work for you, withdraw your offer. It’s quite a risk taking on a recent removal of a load bearing wall without building regs sign off. You’re obviously a cautious person, it’ll probably weigh on you. It’s not unreasonable to ask them to do this.

As pp have said Walk Away now. What a waster of time , energy and money :-(

Im just so baffled why you would let cash buyers, with an over offer asking price in this market for walk away for the sale of retrospective BR.

Because they know it may fail? And if it does you will take a chunk off the price to fix it.

The buyers of my parents’ old house just spent a fortune on renovations. But the extension they added failed building regs and had to be pulled down and rebuilt. This was on a house that cost them £3 million to buy. Good architect. Expensive builders. God knows how it happened.

Moral is that anyone can fuck up on building regs so you’re right to insist. Can’t believe your solicitor is so crap.

Just walk away. They will probably get the certificate to keep you as buyers.

I should clarify that it was the buyers who added the extension and did all the renovations not my parents.

This will come up for them with their next buyer if you pull out of the sale so I cannot see why they are fighting getting a building regs sign off. It is the most important thing you do because it prevents this situation mid sale.

For me and Dh this is the hill we die on, no building regs cert, no sale. You are completely reasonable to want it. If you are a cash buyer then I would pull out of this sale and see what comes onto the market next year. Even if it means going into rented to complete on your current house.

Possible reasons why the seller might not want to get the cert:

1. They think you might cave, so it’s easier and cheaper not to.
2. They have some idea of how long it’d take to get the cert and don’t want to or can’t wait that long
3. They have some idea of how long it’d take to get the cert and don’t think you will actually wait that long
4. They believe that exposing the beam right before Christmas will be a problem - family coming round, plasterer impossible to book
5. etc

There’s lots of reasons why they’d want you to take the risk and not them. It doesn’t mean they’re being shady or know there’s a problem with the installation. But they’re not you and aren’t going to prioritise your interests. Let them know you won’t proceed without the cert and they’ll just have to suck it up and deal with their side of things.

Pull out! You have already been patient enough with a 6month+ wait time, and they are being massively unreasonable. Never buy a property without BR! You are a cash buyer and it is a buyers market so you will find another house without the headache. I would also dump this estate agent, it is scandalous that they are telling you no BR are needed!

Sounds very dodgy - I would walk away. What other things are they trying to conceal? (Have done loads of renovations and speaking from experience)

We are putting our house on the market soon. We put up an extension over 12 years ago. We have just got it signed off (it needed a bannister fitted to comply). I wouldn’t dream of selling a house without sign off, it sends out so many dodgy signals not to have it done.

As it’s an old building, we have also had a survey done to share with prospective buyers.

It sounds like your sellers don’t know what’s in their bests interests.

Its a good enough reason to walk away without feeling guilty.

Why has it taken 6 months so far?

Sellers probably need building warrant in theory to carry out the work. Obviously in practical terms they havent bothered. Strictly speaking they dont need the buidling warrant to sell the house, but it to the buyer to accept the position, push for retrospective building warrant/completion certificate or get sellers to agree to indemnity insurance, all which may or may not affect the price offered. Itll come down to how much you want the house, and how much they want to sell it to you.

When we bought current house there were a few things not signed off and DH just said he wouldn’t proceed without this in place as concerned about potential for future problems. It literally delayed things for about a week and sellers were absolutely fine about it.
I think you need everything signed off.

I recently sold my house and during the process discovered that building control had not issued final completion certificate. Our fault entirely although our builder went bust immediately after the job and was actually a total nightmare all the way through, as naive first timer renovators we didn't realise that a final very was issued. We contacted bc and they inspected the work and were happy with the works completed with just a small remedial action required. Got in touch with our buyer and confirmed what needed doing and asked if they wanted to do it with a discount on asking price or if they wanted us to do it. Took about two weeks to sort out. Your sellers are being totally unreasonable. Hope you get a resolution soon.

@dieselKiller Good question. Solicitors have been slow, they were very slow to answer our enquiries, and this building regs issue. Every time they contact us they send more plans but not a BR cert despite us asking again and again. Oh our solicitor also told us that our case had been put to the side whilst they worked on a government deadline for people buying 2nd homes, which is nice.

Your fastest easiest route to get the answers you need, is to contact the Planning Dept (have the project reference number to hand) and check; Did the property alteration need Planning permission? Did they apply and was it granted? has it been inspected and Completion Certificated by Building Control? If all is in order, you should be able to obtain copies of the CC certificate from the department.

I did exactly that in a previous purchase and in the space of a 5 minute conversation found the seller's extension did have PP; the work did not have a CC becauseit failed the final inspection on two minor points. (The seller lied to us he had lost the CC certificate)

The failures were external and fixable and the seller now hadn't a leg to stand on. The work was done to required building standards (at his expense), re-inspected by Building Control (at his expense) and the CC was issued.