UK house prices post biggest fall since October 2008 - Halifax data today Weds 7th Dec

[jimmyjammy001]

Just a quick note for anyone looking to buy, in particular first time buyers who run the extreme risk of running into negative equity if buying with a low deposit

UK house prices post biggest fall since October 2008

Also its important to note that "Property prices are up more than £12,000 compared to this time last year, and well above pre-pandemic levels (+£46,403 vs March 2020). "

I suspect there will be bigger falls yet still to come as well

@rainingsnoring well that’s the point you will be able to buy a house. If you hadn’t bought it you wouldn’t ne able to buy a house at that point in the future (obviously ignoring all other possible ways to make money).

and if you downsize etc you can free up money. And if you have paid off capital you won’t have to pay rent etc.

buying a house remains a very sound long term financial plan for most (not all) circumstances

even if the market crashes 30% next year (it won’t) it will have rexoceeed and then some in 30 years time

You are moving the goalposts, your original statement was wrong, for example in Scotland at the moment a tenancy passing to another entity due to landlord death or repossession would not be able to sell or increase the rent due to an eviction and rent increase ban, and there are many situations where the new landlord entity might not want to increase the rent, get rid of the tenant, or sell the property, so yes a tenancy could be more insecure than a mortgaged house (as long as you keep servicing the mortgage debt) but not insecure in the way that you are trying to suggest. The most insecure position to be in now is bubble mortgage that looked good at 2% in a rapidly rising rates environment with plenty scope for more "shocks".

"buying a house remains a very sound long term financial plan for most (not all) circumstances"

Not at bubble prices with rising interest rates, that is why buyer enquiries are down about 50%, but keep saying it enough times and maybe you can believe it even if no one else does.

@DeadHouseBounce on a scale of 1 to 10 how annoyed are you that you didn’t buy a house 20 years ago?

😂

😂

And again, 10 years ago 🤣😭

In Scotland perhaps, I don't know. But in England renting is precarious and people who rent often have to move house regularly due to the whims of their landlords. There's also no rent control other than the market. Renting a 3 bed house near me would cost considerably more per month than buying my 5 bed house even for someone with only a 10% deposit

I'm not in Scotland so irrelevant for me. If you're happy to stake your home on the whims of a landlord then go ahead.

What IS your stake in all this?

Far too many assumptions in this post.

I agree that buying a house is often a sound plan but more for the security. I think house prices will fall significantly and we won't have crazy periods of asset price inflation in the future.

@DeadHouseBounce there are lots of problems with the rental market, definitely in England (I'm not familiar with the Scottish system). Surely you can understand that there are pros and cons to both choice. I do a agree that we are in a bubble market at present but, generally speaking.

I did buy a house 25 years ago. We were 39, and we stretched ourselves, because we were both self -employed, but it was our house. Over the years. we've spent at least as much as we paid for the house (probably more) on improving it. Central heating (there wasn't any when we moved in) bathrooms, 20 years on we updated the kitchen, rendering the exterior walls cost almost £20k. We have done it all for our comfort, plus maintenance, and the house is now perfect, and worth 6x the original purchase price. Okay the market locally has gone apeshit and people want to live here now they can WFH, but the equivalent versions of us could never have bought the house we bought from a forced seller at the trough of the 1990s recession.

So the good news is that disaster will create changes and opportunities for some, while being catastrophic for people who overpaid in 2020/21.

Stepped away from the madness of this thread a few days and thought I'd see if any sanity had returned. Nope! a load of angry men shouting and LOLing at their own 'jokes'(?) and at people possibly being evicted from their homes.

Apparently this is all because we were idiots for wanting secure roofs over the heads of our families. For most people it comes down to a simple choice as we can't not 'participate in the market' as we have to live somewhere so either:

1. You buy a house when you can at the current market price, eventually pay off the mortgage and then end up with an asset at the value of the current market price that you live in.
2. Or you don't buy and you continue to pay the same amount of money at least, have to move frequently and with little notice and end up with no asset of any value at the end. Where I live in the south east it is more expensive to rent than to buy the equivalent house even if mortgage rates go up significantly so it's not like I could rent with a family and be squirrelling away cash as an alternative option.
3. Or finally as seems to be the advice here, wait and wait 20+ years and hope that house prices fall so dramatically that you will be able to get a bargain which is effectively option 2 but comforting yourself with the idea that you're some kind of financial savant who will eventually get to laugh at the sheeple loosing their homes and being destitute.

Thats it those are your options and I can't call anyone stupid for wanting to take option 1.

Stepped away from the madness of this thread a few days and thought I'd see if any sanity had returned. Nope! a load of angry men shouting and LOLing at their own 'jokes'(?) and at people possibly being evicted from their homes.

Apparently this is all because we were idiots for wanting secure roofs over the heads of our families. For most people it comes down to a simple choice as we can't not 'participate in the market' as we have to live somewhere so either:

1. You buy a house when you can at the current market price, eventually pay off the mortgage and then end up with an asset at the value of the current market price that you live in.
2. Or you don't buy and you continue to pay the same amount of money at least, have to move frequently and with little notice and end up with no asset of any value at the end. Where I live in the south east it is more expensive to rent than to buy the equivalent house even if mortgage rates go up significantly so it's not like I could rent with a family and be squirrelling away cash as an alternative option.
3. Or finally as seems to be the advice here, wait and wait 20+ years and hope that house prices fall so dramatically that you will be able to get a bargain which is effectively option 2 but comforting yourself with the idea that you're some kind of financial savant who will eventually get to laugh at the sheeple loosing their homes and being destitute.

Thats it those are your options and I can't call anyone stupid for wanting to take option 1.

Stepped away from the madness of this thread a few days and thought I'd see if any sanity had returned. Nope! a load of angry men shouting and LOLing at their own 'jokes'(?) and at people possibly being evicted from their homes.

Apparently this is all because we were idiots for wanting secure roofs over the heads of our families. For most people it comes down to a simple choice as we can't not 'participate in the market' as we have to live somewhere so either:

1. You buy a house when you can at the current market price, eventually pay off the mortgage and then end up with an asset at the value of the current market price that you live in.
2. Or you don't buy and you continue to pay the same amount of money at least, have to move frequently and with little notice and end up with no asset of any value at the end. Where I live in the south east it is more expensive to rent than to buy the equivalent house even if mortgage rates go up significantly so it's not like I could rent with a family and be squirrelling away cash as an alternative option.
3. Or finally as seems to be the advice here, wait and wait 20+ years and hope that house prices fall so dramatically that you will be able to get a bargain which is effectively option 2 but comforting yourself with the idea that you're some kind of financial savant who will eventually get to laugh at the sheeple loosing their homes and being destitute.

Thats it those are your options and I can't call anyone stupid for wanting to take option 1.

@SollaSollew such a good post ill agree with you thrice 🎄

@SollaSollew an excellent summary. Deservedly posted in triplicate

We had a swirl of angry posters around a decade or so ago all advocating option 3 and I am so glad I chose option 1 instead!

Now we’ve just got DeadHouseBounce with their swirl of alternative personas

And their excessive faith in the Scottish private rental system

😂

Lots of bickering here. And the original message of the thread seems to be lost in the noise.

Of course renting is worse than buying. Of course people had no alternative than buying at these exorbitant prices. All of that is true.

All I am stating is that the price reduction witnessed this month is a good news and hopefully this trend will continue so that we enter a healthy sane market. Else, one ends up having zombie households with too much debt against their income.

But I am not sure how the previous posters who are showing compassion for those that bought recently (and very rightly so) suggest how to make the process of affordable housing less painful. Or are they suggesting that the house prices continue their upward march all the time so that anyone who bought recently must continue to accumulate equity gains? If that is the case then, in the absence of matching wage growth, we will have even a bigger population worse off and they will then be forced to show compassion for the larger population who will forever miss out on the housing ladder (something I fear my children will face).

As someone here pointed out, it is sad that Covid and war had to bring us to a situation where people will suffer from falling prices when democratically elected MPs should have been working towards affordable housing. It is just sad. I do not want anyone to suffer. I just want my children to be safe in their future. Do we all not want that?. And therefore, how do we get there?

In the end there are no easy answers here. However, one thing is clear: any transition causes discomfort to one section or the other. I am just rooting for my kids to be able to afford in the next few years. Does that make me selfish? Perhaps and I am not apologetic about it. I am not sure as a parent what else can I do apart from hoping and choosing wisely just as others are choosing based on their situation.

Seeing as @DeadHouseBounce is apparently too busy trolling, I’ll answer for him: he’s excruciatingly annoyed. So excruciatingly annoyed that he’s perpetually mired in bitterness and resentment. Just the same as the entire House Price Crash crew.

It really is tragic beyond belief because while most homeowners live in warm, comfortable and secure homes, this sad crew continue living in damp rented bedsits. If I were them I’d keep quiet, and out of sight. Just as they have been for the last 50 years in which house prices have only gone up, irrespective of one or two blips.

Well.

I first bought in 1999. Back then a couple on pretty crappy wages could still afford to get on the housing ladder.

We sold up and bought in the downturn after the FC in 2011.

We got less for our than we would have liked but also paid less for our current home.

5 years left on mortgage so will be paid off when we are 55. Ideally,we'd have been overpaying but we could never afford it.

So whilst I think there will be a downturn again as after 2008 (it's already started...) there won't be a crash.

Despite those who hope most desperately for one.

on a scale of 1 to 10 how annoyed are you that you didn’t buy a house 20 years ago?

I'm super pissed I didn't! I was a teenager though, should have not bothered with uni & got a 100% mortgage in the early 00s. I'd be loaded now.

It's far better for the economy if interest rates aren't at emergency levels & salaries stop stagnating. The only growth in the last decade or so has been in house prices which is why the economy is now fucked.

Yes I'm a homeowner