Neighbours dormer

[Vanillacupcake33]

Just looking for some advice from people who's neighbours have got dormers or anyone who has experience of them. My neighbour has informed me they are having a dormer built in the summer. They are the type to cut corners with things and get the cheapest possible jobs done from anyone who will help cheaply or free. They said to me you'll receive a party wall agreement and it needs signing in 14 days. Now I'll sound abit stupid here but I have absolutly no idea about anything building wise and I am the type to say yes to most things without considering any problems that may occur so this is left to my dp. They've basically demanded me allow the extension, told us they will be building into the party wall etc. This is typical of my neighbours who never consider us in any way. They're type to want everything and moan if they don't get it. Now I wouldn't want to stop the conversation but would like to know what we need to consider. We've looked in our loft and the wall doesn't look the best if I'm honest im not even sure it'll hold a dormer. They have said their friend will come out to check the party wall but hes not a surveyor so surley thats not legal is it? If we appointed our own wall surveyor theyd have a fit if they had to pay. I've also read that dormers can cause leaks into the neighbours property is this true? They are quite loud neighbours too so would building a dormer make them louder? What happens if there's damage to our property and also would it devalue our property of a dormer was anchored to our wall? Sorry for all the questions, I just want to gather all info before agreeing to something. If we dont agree i can gurantee they would be even more a pain to live next door to so i need advice on what to look for or research so i can explain what worries us if anything. Thankyou

You are absolutely entitled to appoint your own party wall surveyor and they have to pay.

You can also agree to a joint pw surveyor BUT if you do this, you should choose who it is, don’t use their mate!!

You should ideally use a PW surveyor who is personally recommended, don’t use one of the PW surveyors who send you unsolicited letters offering their services.

Appointing a decent, independent pw surveyor should ensure that their builders protect against damage to your house and make good any that does happen.

Note they are not mean to start work until 3 months after they’ve sent you a PW notice. Although you can agree to shorter.

The PW process cannot be used to stop the work happening just because you don’t like the idea but it does help protect you and your house.

They will need building control sign off so hopefully that should ensure they do things properly too.

Thanks for your quick advice it's really helpful. I just don't want to miss anything and agree to something then regret it if something happens. They've actually annoyed me today as they've informed me that they are booking a few short holidays whilst work is being carried out to avoid any noise and don't want to upset their children and dog. This annoyed me as I also have children and a dog...a very nervous dog actually but there's no holiday for us unfortunately. I have asked why they cant build the dormer away from the party wall but they said they want it to be a big room and possible bathroom so need the space and to do this need to use the party wall. These houses are not the best built if I'm honest and when we brought the house subsidence (I think thats right please correct me if it's not the correct term) was noted in the deeds along with a few other issues so adding extra weight to the wall freaks me out a bit. I'm just hoping they do it the right way and not cut corners of it can affect us too. They have been quoted 15 grand does this sound right or too cheap meaning they may be getting cowboys in? They said this includes stairs, dormer, and ensuite.

For gods sake instruct a surveyor to deal with this on your behalf. That gives you a professional who understands the law and what is going on with the build. They will help to protect you, but this will also help your neighbours as you have professionals documenting what is happening and who can help resolve disputes.

I had a pay a small fortune to neighbours when I did work on my house, as they instructed surveyors, but you just suck it up as a cost of the renovation. If you can’t afford it then you can’t afford to do the work.

Don’t let them convince you to do it on trust.

I think that's exactly what they they are trying to do. They are very much the type to do whatever it takes to get what they want and this means cutting corners and getting anybody in which is what worries me. They also told me to cut costs they are doing their own pipework and waterworks and as I again didn't understand this I had a Google and saw that if pipework is not done correctly it can cause leaks on a neighbours roof or party wall. Before I knew we can get our own surveyor (as I don't trust anyone they would ask) they said we didn't need to do that as they would get someone to look at our sode of the wall etc. I'm not at all bothered about what they do but I am bothered if it's not done right it can affect our home and once the dormer is up and there is problems there is nothing we can do but suffer the consequences which is why I needed extra advice on here from people who know more about it.

OP, I think you have to instruct a PW surveyor.

Either ask on here for local recommendations or maybe on a local FB group?

It will cost them, but you are entitled to do this and you'd be a mug if you didn't.

It's the only way to protect your property.

That's VERY cheap for this project and it definitely sounds like they want to get mates to bodge it.

You just can't be having that - it might seriously affect your ability to sell on, as much anything.

Good luck!

My new next door neighbours have just put in a planning application for a large extension.
In the past I have always wanted to be"nice"... and...helpful and...accommodating..
(i. e. walk all over me and cause a lot of damage to my property).
You sound like I was in the past!
This time round I will have my own party wall surveyor. I have asked around and done some research and (hopefully) found a good one. Many PWS are rubbish so you have to choose carefully.
In your case I think it is an absolute must. Your neighbours are cheapskates and sounds like it could well be a botched job and have repercussions for you long term.
If you are generally a bit of a people pleaser then you need to find your inner bitch.
You are entitled by law to appoint your own PWS. If they can afford an extension then they can afford a PWS. It should be factored in to their costings.
Stand firm and protect your home - with the circumstances you describe you most definitely need to.
Otherwise very possibly you will look back and have huge regrets that you didn't exercise your legal rights.

Thanks for the replies I will definitely search for a good pws and tell them I am doing so when they mention it again. I am very much a person pleaser and your right I do need to find the inner bitch I know she's in there somewhere! They said someone will come out to see if the wall is single skinned or double skinned first then serve us with the agreement. She did ask if our side of the wall was damaged in any way that would affect their build would I be prepared to get it fixed and I said no I will not fix something that's not affecting us and pay out money just so they can have a dormer, not a chance. I will definitely do some digging. Thankyou

On a separate note, if they are physically using the party wall as part of the build, they will need planning permission for it

Dormers can often be built under the permitted development rules and nit need full PP. However, pd rights only apply to works completely within the boundary of a property, so if the party wall is actually being altered, no pd rights exist. It might be worth speaking to your local council planning department.

Well done you! Stand your ground!
OMG - you mentioned single skin - I am having huge battles with my neighbour on the other side whose single skin extension (attached to my side while I was away!)..oh and we weren't even semis/attached in the first place..is crumbling to sand and causing huge issues.
And they have not gone for planning permission- wow - same as my neighbours!
I urge you to phone your council planning department ASAP and speak to them with a follow up email expressing your concerns (as voiced in your posts here).
You have no idea the damage incompetent, cheap cowboys can do to your house! Please do it (and yes I'm projecting my lack of action at the time, on to you 😆because I am mad at myself for not doing it when I had the chance at the time! That's why this time I'm doing things differently!

www.ricsfirms.com/helplines/party-walls/

Start with this. A free 30 min consulation via the RICS (Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors)

I’d get a surveyor lined up ready before you speak to them again. If they know this is what you want to do you can expect a massive effort to convince you not to use one.

Much better to be able to say that you have already appointed a surveyor to act on your behalf and that all correspondence relating to the party wall should be dealt with through them.

They said if its single skinned they'll need planning permission and a pw agreement but if its double skinned they won't need planning permission as long as it doesn't go over the boundary. They definitely want to use the party wall to make the dormer bigger from what I can gather.
@20questions wow your neighbour did that wothout you knowing. That's awful! The crumbling is what I'm scared off. The neighbour said to me when they first wanted the dormer, well you don't use the loft for other than storage anyway, yes this is true but I do not want the wall crumble due to you adding an extension. I have read dormers can be built without using the party wall and this we would have no objection to whatsoever but using the party wall does scare me slightly especially if it's single skinned! Can we refuse of it is single skinned? They clearly couldn't care less what we think about it, they have the attitude of we are doing what we want and when we want. If it was the other way around and I was having the dormer I would make sure my neighbours were unaffected as possible, happy and consider any objections they had. We are not petty people and if they want to make their home nicer, great and I'm happy for them but if it may affect our home then I do have a problem.

£15k?!!!

I’ve just had one put in for £50k odd, and they didn’t even have to do the stairs.

Had quotes for £65k too.
My sister paid about £45k 5 years ago or so.

Thats very interesting then. 15k was definitely what they said, maximum 20k. I don't actually think they've had any proper quotes if I'm honest im not sure where they've got the price from but if that sounds cheap then something isn't right.

It sounds like they want a dormer the full width of the roof, using both ends as end walls to their dormer.
If they try to use the party wall, they will strip the roof over the boundary, build on your side of the party wall, then repair the roof, but the end of dormer will definitely be on your side of the party wall. Pretty sure they’ll need planning, and your, permission.
If the PW is single skin, they can build a timber wall in their loft, but they will still expect to use the PW to build the external end of the dormer on.
Most people step them in a couple of feet to avoid interfering with the neighbours. Personally I’d try and stop them.

I paid more than £15000 nearly 20 years ago for a small dormer and staircase! The fact that they are saying that’s what they’re paying NOW would be ringing alarm bells for me.

Yes that makes sense. When we are given the papers would it have a detailed image or outline of what they want, such as using the wall etc? So then we will know exactly what they want and if it will affect the wall in any way and step in before it's started because I know once it's up there's nothing we can do. I would really prefer them to do it away from the party wall if possible just to save any hassle, problems or arguments. I definitely have a lot to look into. The dormer will also overlook a bungalow the other side which is where the dormer will be and I'm not sure if theyll also need the ladies permission as I'm sure it would block a lot of her light at the side. I'm glad I posted here else I would have just listened to what they want and said go ahead without a second thought. It wasn't until they actually said if its single skinned we need your permission that made me think about it and why it would affect us. Like I said...absolutely clueless

Oh if it helps I think our roof is called a gable?

"We're not petty people"
Yes..us people pleasers are frightened of being seen as petty. Therefore we let people get away with pushing our boundaries over and over again!
Strengthen your boundaries (both physically and metaphorically in this instance 😉).
Because they may see you as a pushover and try to wear you down, I would engage a good PWS and point blank refuse to discuss anything with them, instead referring them to said PWS.
If they keep trying to engage your agreement to their cheap building work which will affect your property, use the broken record technique! (Apart from anything else they will need your permission anyway to access your property)

The fact they are doing it on the cheap would not instill confidence in me.
This what most people do, step it in. Which hardly costs them any space inside and saves you some worry.

Double tap image to see what I mean.

£15k seems really cheap. I'm getting a hip to gable dormer loft extension done. It's costing £50k for the shell - paying separately for stairs, bathroom, windows et .

We submitted a PW notice after gaining planning permission etc.

Are you building on the PW?

@C4tastrophe yes we are building along the party wall (2 or 3 beams I can't remember). We have a semi detached house.

I would be calling the council ASAP and getting that free consultation from the professional society that a pp mentioned, too.

15 grand would barely cover the stairway IME.