Anyone know about old houses who can speculate why my kitchen wall is like this?!

[SarahAndQuack]

My house is seventeenth century and mostly lime plaster on the interior walls. At some stage, someone has re-plastered the kitchen to about counter-top height, with modern plaster. The old lime plaster is still in situ above this and in good condition; the modern plaster is in bad condition. Why would it have been replaced like this? It's not for wiring, clearly, and I don't see why the whole lot would have been replaced for plumbing.

TIA!

Any chance of a flood at some point?

In a previous house I had plaster taken off to roughly that sort of height because of damp.

Might it have been tanked at some point?

Damp?

Or perhaps previous kitchen cabinets damaged the wall when they were taken out and they had to replaster?

I don't think flooding would do it; it'd have flooded everywhere surely?

@SoupDragon - YY, I wonder if they did this and didn't realise (or didn't care!) they were replacing it with the wrong plaster/they hadn't solved the problem underlying it.

@Espritdescalier - sorry, what does that mean?

@rbe78 - no, they've re-plastered the whole room; I can't imagine it was totally lined with cabinets? Obviously it's damp, but I want to try to figure out why and how to tackle it.

Oops, sorry, meant to say, thanks all! (Am dashing out to my DD's parents' meeting ...).

We had this in our house. It is done to combat rising damp by people who have no idea about old houses. If you take it off, there will be a layer of plastic behind the plaster and plasterboard. There might also be holes drilled into the walls either internally or externally that have had damp proof injections put into them.

If you leave it in place then it might lead to the material the walls are made of becoming damaged as they will be wet and unable to dry out.

I would take it off and let the walls breathe and then replace with lime plaster but it might be worth waiting to see if there are damp issues first. How many of the walls are external and what are the floors? Are they stone? Or suspended wood?

Yes sorry I should have explained tanking is a waterproof membrane applied to floors and walls to stop damp. It's done externally on newer houses I believe but is often applied internally in older houses. If it's been tanked the type of plaster won't matter much. Might be worth getting a damp expert out to take a look and let you know what's been done? As pp said it can cause issues with 'breathing' for old houses. Or see if there is any paperwork from the previous owners - tanking and damp proofing will often come with a guarantee which they might have passed on?

This is what's worrying me. There is spalling on the bricks on the outside and I expect this is why. How hard did you find to get it off? I'm quite happy lime plastering so can replace it, but I've not had to chip off big sections of plaster before.

The walls are soft brick. I am not sure about the floor - it's poured concrete in the living room but that's been done more recently.

Thanks! What would the waterproof membrane look like, do you know? I think I would need to remove it. I could get the surveyor out, but I'd be keen to try to sort it myself.

There's nothing useful to be had from the previous owners, sadly - they were landlords owning thousands of properties and all the work they did was done on the cheap, usually badly, usually with inappropriate materials. We knew this when we bought the house and we've had a decent survey, so this is not a surprise - it's just I want to do as much as I can myself (not least because finding a builder at the moment is impossible!).

It it likely to be plaster board that has been skimmed so should be fairly easy to remove. If not then a bolster and hammer will get it off reasonably fast.

The concrete floors are a bit of a worry. If the concrete has been put down to combat damp then you may have to take them up too as they won't be breathable.

There is a lot of good advice about managing damp in old houses on the period property forum (not part of Mumsnet).

Is the ground level outside the house lower than the floors all the way round the building? And I assume you have checked the downpipes and guttering aren't leaking? That can cause spalled bricks too.

Thanks. A quick experimental knock suggests it isn't plasterboard, but I'm going to wait until DP's home to whack it harder. Am I liable to hit anything crucial if I go at it with a bolster and a hammer?

I am a bit worried about the concrete floors. FWIW the surveyor thought the one in the living room shouldn't be an issue, but I need to dig out the report to understand why.

The house is higher than ground level outside, but we are aware we have an issue with water pooling at the other end of this exterior wall, and it may be that's the underlying cause.

Just from the pattern of where the bricks are spalled, it feels awfully tempting to blame whoever re-plastered as it lines up quite neatly.

Your old house Uk - repair and conservation

An amazing fb group that provides lots of help and guidance on this sort of thing x

There shouldn't be any pipes in the wall but if there is something in the room that you can't tell where the water supply is coming from then be cautious about pipes. Sockets and electrical stuff usually runs at right angle from the thing is it supplying so again be caution below and above sockets and switches in a straight line and occasionally the cables are horizontal from socket to socket. All electrical stuff should be run in trunking if it is in the plaster but again be careful with old houses as people do random stuff.

It is also helpful to have a trug or rubble sacks so you can just put the crap straight in

We had something similar, checked the outside wall for any obvious things like leaking drainpipes etc. But basically they'd used the wrong plaster, we had it chipped off and replaced with plaster that could breathe and suited age of house and it solved the problem.

Thanks @beachmum1, sounds great!

@Geneticsbunny - YY, 'random stuff' is precisely what I am worried about! Honestly, some of the things I've uncovered are terrifying. I will be careful. We've got one of those beeper things that, in theory, tells you if there's a cable, but we find it can be bamboozled by other things (massive iron nails hammered in for no reason?) quite easily. Good tip about the sack for rubble!

That's really hopeful. I am a bit nervous because the fact of them replastering suggests to me there was something else going on. But, maybe if I can repoint as well, it'll be ok. It's always good to have someone's positive story in mind, thank you!

Speaking from personal experience I'd just be careful before whacking things with hammers - make sure it's something you can live with if you change your mind! Tanking/damp proofing can come in all forms, from plastic sheeting, to injections to 'slurry' and my experience of living in an old house is that often if you start to try and fix a problem yourself you encounter more problems on the way!

But also if you're happy to live with a chipped wall etc then do go for it - we've had a hole in the concrete on the living room floor for 2 years where I convinced myself the original flags had been covered over and I could chip them out to all their glory. There were no flags (sob!) and I can't really justify sorting out my sorry little digging so it's just lurking under the carpet in a corner now 🤣

OMG, @Espritdescalier, I can so relate to that. I do have a tendency to leap in before I look.

I'd take off the modern plaster as it's not letting the wall breath and will potentially cause more damage and decay to the walls, especially if there's any timber in there. It could be tanking as PP said or out could be they put in an injected damp proof course and plastered back over but that's unlikely as injectables tend to be installed externally.

I'd strip it back to brick carefully (the modern plaster may adhere to the old brick), let it dry for a month or so (a dehumidifier would be useful during this period), then install an electric osmosis DPC and replaster with lime. The DPC should stop any rising damp.

Oh and a concrete floor will also cause damp in an old building. If you have the means to remove it then a suspended timber floor or a limecrete for is a much better option.

I would expect that previous cabinets have damaged the original aster and it was cheaper to make good in gypsum.

You should take the gypsum off as it will cause damp, no point trying to make good like for like. Limeplaster is best but expensive, messy and takes a long time, a quicker, cheaper, diy alternative would be panelling. You could take off all plaster (and lath, if present), screw studs on, and then (as in kitchen) moisture resistant mdf panelling. If it's an external wall, you could put sheepwool or cork insulation behind the panelling. Tongue and Groove will give you the Neptune (the kitchen company) country kitchen look, if you like that. Just make sure there is enough space for air to circulate behind the panelling. You could leave small gaps top and bottom or insert a couple of vents.

If youre happy touching electrics, taking the front plate off a socket will often let you see the wall beneath without having to smash anything with a hammer. Ripping off a skirting board may give you similar if they've not plastered right to the floor.

If the damp proofing is just several inches of cement then that's probably harder/stronger than the wet bricks, so do it carefully.