Anyone know about old houses who can speculate why my kitchen wall is like this?!

[SarahAndQuack]

My house is seventeenth century and mostly lime plaster on the interior walls. At some stage, someone has re-plastered the kitchen to about counter-top height, with modern plaster. The old lime plaster is still in situ above this and in good condition; the modern plaster is in bad condition. Why would it have been replaced like this? It's not for wiring, clearly, and I don't see why the whole lot would have been replaced for plumbing.

TIA!

Thanks all! This is wonderful.

@MariaDingbat - I've not come across mentions of an electric osmosis dpc before! I know the concrete floor isn't wonderful, but currently I'm doing all of this on a shoestring, so hoping to put off having to remove that until later, if we possibly can. Of course if we must we must (and it'd be a nice chance to put in underfloor heating and flagstones, which I'd love to do!).

@NellyBarney - they'd definitely have taken the cheap option! It's very likely. I'm quite happy lime plastering - I think I'd likely find doing panelling more difficult as I am more confident with plaster than I am with joinery (if panelling counts as joinery, even!). Plus I think it will look more 'in keeping'. I'm slightly nervous about doing such a big area, but I probably just need to get my head down and do it. I think probably not until it's warmer, though?

@DancingRabbit - unfortunately, taking the socket cover off just showed a horribly corroded socket back, which gave us the horrors! We need to replace it asap (and check the others). They've not plastered down to the floor, but the lowest big is currently coated in thick gloss paint (why?!), so I can't tell what's going on there.

I am just now going through something similar.
My old house has waist-high cement render on the inside, cement pointing on the front elevation causing a considerable decay in the brickwork, cracked cement render at the back, substandard concrete flooring throughout the downstairs, damp proof injections on the external and internal walls, some walls have plastic membranes behind newly installed wood paneling and extensive dry rot in the ground floor skirting boards and door frames (I hope it's just there - I'm yet to unbox the stairs and check ceiling voids).

Your house has been "damp proofed" just like mine. And it will end up like mine (with wood rot) unless you unpick it all.

Under NO Circumstances Damp Proof anything! Your house most likely is in no need of DPC of any kind. If you think it does - with the age of your house please consult heritage specialists. Peter Ward seems great and his blog Heritage House is worth a thorough read.

My house is/was damp. I'm drying it out at the moment (and will until summer at least ) - rotted woodwork cut away, cement finishes gone and back to brick, heat on, windows open.
Lime really is the way to go. 👌
I plan on repointing mine due to lack of any knowledge and care amongst the local brickies.

Zero cash to dig up the floor (money is going on a new roof imminently as that seems to be the main route of water - ingress). I hope to try and compensate for the concrete slab by making everything else as breathable and ventilated as possible. Fingers crossed!

I so wish the previous owners would have done precisely nothing of the "improvements" bestowed on me.

Images of dry rot running riot along the modern cement finishes. It was growing on the back of some of the plastic membranes too (plentiful droplets of condensation to have a drink there).

And note the cute chemical injection holes along the bottom of the wall... If anyone ever needed a proof of their uselessness... 😐

Just a warning not to hand over any cash to damp-proofing companies/conmen.

I may need to hire you to plaster 😁

@QueenCamilla, I'm waving to a fellow sufferer!

Repointing is actually not hard - I was pleasantly surprised. But I've only done bits where I've not had to rake out the cement pointing so far. I'm slightly dreading that.

We're lucky that we don't seem to have any rot to skirtings or stairs. When I took up the stair carpet I was terrified I'd find signs of rot, but the wood seems sound so far. Like you, I've not got in under the stairs yet, but fingers crossed. Are yours fairly accessible?

I love your idea about fixing everything else before worrying about the cement. That is what I have to do, so I'd love to know how it goes for you! I'm so with you on wishing the house had been left well alone. In my case, I know that all repairs were done on the cheap, as cynically as possible - but I'm lucky that they left lots of things alone!

Eek! I had been wondering what dry rot looks like ... and wow, it really is fungal-looking, isn't it?! Frightening.

You don't want me to plaster! I am very slow, and the finish isn't wonderful. But I decided that, since there aren't any straight walls in the house anyway, the odd less-than-perfectly-straight bit of plaster won't kill anyone. If you're interested in trying and want to start small, I really recommend Cornish Lime: cornishlime.co.uk/products/lime-binders/lime-putty/]]

It is hugely expensive compared to mixing your own, but you can buy a tub of putty (or whatever) and try it out. You need gloves and goggles and a hawk, but then you can just try it out and see if you feel comfortable. You can sand lime, so you need to get it fairly flat, but it is forgiving if you don't get it perfect.

I suggest you join the Traditional and Listed Building Advice Facebook group, lots of great info on there and one of the founders is a specialist surveyor.
I agree with a PP who said that somebody has tried to ‘cure’ non existent rising damp in the past, stripping off and replastering to a metre high was common after a chemical injection treatment.

Ooh, that sounds like a great group, thank you!

It is hugely expensive compared to mixing your own, but you can buy a tub of putty (or whatever) and try it out. You need gloves and goggles and a hawk, but then you can just try it out and see if you feel comfortable. You can sand lime, so you need to get it fairly flat, but it is forgiving if you don't get it perfect.

It is probably sooo much cheaper than hiring a lime plasterer though!

Do you mean that lime can't be sanded? I'd have to live with a very charming wonky finish in that case! At least I have dado rails as a natural break-point between the work of Victorian craftsmen and my attempts 😁

My stairs have a beautiful panelling I couldn't bear to lose so I hope that has escaped the fate of the door architraves!

I have a downstairs cupboard and it seems musty but fine in there however the underside of the threads is behind the original lath and plaster. Not much air in the void and the rot would like that... I'm opening that up to have a peek tomorrow! Everything crossed!! I'm optimistic - the threads seem solid.

Your best case scenario is that some acute damp problem was sorted at the same time as the damp-proofing took place. So the house will be back to it's former glory once the gypsum/cement is gone. The floor being the only variable.

Do you have any signs of damp anywhere in the house?

I have way too many pictures of dry rot now 😂 At least I know it's pretty unmistakable if it's ever near me again! I literally took this door frame apart with bare hands...
It sucks to land in such a deep end but it's done now and it's my responsibility to put things right again.

Are you taking the modern plaster off this winter?

@QueenCamilla - yes, it's much cheaper than hiring a plasterer, and that's why I started in on it! I just found it impossible to find anyone willing to do lime plaster, anyway. If I'd had a huge budget and several rooms to do at once, maybe - but no one wanted to come and do small bits.

You can absolutely sand lime. Depending what type you use (and that website I linked gives a good run-down), it can take a while to cure. But you can sand at each stage of layering it up (if that's what you choose to do), and it's very forgiving. The uneven finish I mention is more a sort of gentle bulge-and-wave effect - I couldn't get a ruler-straight finish on the wall, and to be honest, I wasn't too keen to push for it, because the older lime plaster isn't straight either, so there seemed no need. But of course if you have beautiful straight walls otherwise, a bit of amateur lime plastering might stand out a little.

I hope you're right that a damp problem was solved before the plastering was put in - but, TBH, I doubt it. We do have damp issues elsewhere (there is a tree growing through the wall, and a lot of inappropriate render, and an issue with drainage where the ground has shifted to push water back against part of the house. I am actually hoping those issues are what's causing this, even though they are at the other end of the outside wall in question, because I think I know how to solve them. Taking up the concrete floor would be scary! But, as you say, it's my responsibility now.

My (sensible) DP is reluctant to let me take off plaster this winter, in case everything goes pear-shaped. I think I will have enough to do before that, anyway. But who knows?!

Your stairs sound beautiful! Good luck tomorrow. You must post and let us know how it turns out! Thank you so much for all of the advice and help - especially about the dry rot.

I think I'd keep the plaster for the winter too - the walls would dry better (and cheaper! ) in spring/summer anyway. But I had to check where the rot had spread so it forced the issue.

I spoke to a lime pointing specialist on the phone (can't find lime workers locally either which is baffling. It's confirmed best practice that lime mortar built houses need lime mortar. That's most of the housing stock in UK! Yet barely any brickies do it... ).
Apparently, not the season to repoint but it would be beneficial to remove external concrete render on a damp house as soon as possible. So I'm considering that.... 🤔

I'm getting a new roof next week and that can't come soon enough!

All and any progress is beneficial and informative, so if you discover something or get a job done - definitely give an update. I'll do so too. Maybe we'll figure out what actually makes a difference when it comes to a damp old house! 🙂

Is the thick gloss black? If so it's probably not gloss but the Victorian(?) equivalent of damp proofing, I think the same stuff they used to paint boats with (maybe tar and something?). I don't exactly know what it is but unlikely that it's in any condition to hold water anymore so you can probably ignore it.
Or someone might have just painted it obviously.

@DancingRabbit - no, it's just cream/white paint. I suspect lead-based so fairly old, but I've not tested it.

@QueenCamilla - oh, gosh, yes, if you have to do something you have to! I think the repointing issue is that if it frosts, it'll tend to crack. I keep kicking myself for not doing more as it still hasn't frosted with us yet (and I'm in North Yorkshire so it should have done!). I'd definitely be glad to keep in touch about what works.

How did your winter repointing and plastering efforts get on @SarahAndQuack and @QueenCamilla .
I have just spent the weekend replacing our soon to be kitchen floor with limecrete. It was one third concrete and two thirds flagstones which were sadly covered with a god awful purple concrete screed. The flagstones had also been gouged out to put hot water pipes in 😭.
We dug out 12 tonnes of rubble and earth, then put in six dumpy bags of foamed glass insulation and then six tonnes of limecrete which we mixed up ourselves. Had three mixers on the go. Bloody hard work but hopefully will make a big difference. Have taken the gypsum plaster of the walls. One wall had some of the tanking with the thick black tar stuff. Husband will start to replaster with lime once the floor has cured! Nice to find some people on here talking about lime!