Multi generational living options - what is the answer?!

[AspenBirch]

DH & I have 3 children, we rent a 2 bed housing association property. We are in rural SW, houses fairly pricey round here. We are both self employed, not great mortgage candidates and not wanting to tie ourselves to one in any case.

My dad is living in his house owned outright and has 200k in the bank. We would all like to live together - he is in his 70s and needs more and more help, I am intending on caring for him as he gets older. We are all very close.

The issue is that his house is fairly small (though bigger than ours). It has one double bedroom and one small-ish room with a staircase in it up to a fairly high-ceilinged attic bedroom. One bathroom, small kitchen. The garden is large though.

Originally we intended to use his 200k cash to build a rear two storey extension. We've realised that the budget would need to be bigger for this now though. Also, DF was a builder/plumber/carpenter and won't entertain paying someone else to do the whole lot anyway,and even if he did would most definitely make any poor builders life a living hell with incessant interfering.

The logical step would be to sell his house (worth about 250k a few months ago) and then buy somewhere bigger, but there was a long running boundary dispute with the neighbour which makes selling a bit tricky.

I have seen these pre-fab granny annexes that look like pretty good deals. Particularly when taking into account the fact that a lot of them will also construct the entire things and do the groundworks too. Does anyone have any experience with them?

I'd be a bit worried about my family fitting into the house, but maybe it would be ok if DH and I had the attic room, our 3year old in lower small room and eldest two girls sharing the large bedroom.

I suppose I'm hoping for a solution but none of the options seems to be the answer.

Oh just to add, in our 2 bed rented house, DD14 has the box bedroom, DH sleeps on a single mattress downstairs in the lounge that is stored in the utility room in the day-time. In the large bedroom, I sleep in a double bed with DD3 and DD9 has a single bed.

The situation isn't ideal!

Do you have any siblings? Unfortunately this can cause issues when the parent or even one of you were to pass away. Would you be able to provide long term personal care for your DF?

Where would your father sleep? That’s all three bedrooms for rhe five of you. Are you thinking of chucking him out into some annex?

Honestly I’ve read it again and it reads like you want to take his money and his home and have him live in the garden in a little annexe? Do you have siblings, any other family who can advocate for him?

No I dont have siblings, yes I'm intending on providing his personal care.

The annexes we are considering are self-contained with a bedroom, kitchenette and bathroom. My father has suggested this himself as a solution so that we can live together and I can help him as he gets older.

To be clear - he is keen for this to happen - we are just trying to figure out how to make it happen. He is not happy on his own.

The ideal solution obviously would be for us all to love together in a 4 bed house but it doesnt seem like a possibility.

To be honest a single level annex with an accessible bathroom etc sounds ideal. The main issue is making sure he still feels part of the family and not obliged to stay in the annex all the time. Would you be able to extend the living are too? 1

We would rather extend his house so that we could all be under one roof. It seems like this is financially out of our reach.

You need to consider what might happen in the future. I know you've said you're planning to look after him but what if he gets to the stage where he needs a care home? Potentially the house might need to be sold to pay the fees. Where would that leave you? You need to think long and hard before giving up your secure tenancy.

Yes I do see what you mean.
DF and I had always agreed that I will take care of him, he has always said he would rather die than go to a care home. I know I may not have a choice one day but I would do everything in my power to care for him myself full time.

Could you and your husband consider getting jobs? If you’re in a two bed council house for 5 of you it sounds very bad. So I can see why he’s offering and why you want to. Would you consider paid employment so you can house yourselves better?

My DH has worked for the same construction company for over ten years. He is employed in all but name - frustrating as he gets no paid holiday or sick with them keeping him as a 'subcontractor'. He earns a good amount (about 40k a year on average). I am a dog walker and earn an okay amount, better than I would as an employee (I'd have to take on low wage work that worked around the kids). Its hard to get a mortgage self employed, but honestly we would be far too scared to seeing how much the payments go up by with rates.
We cant afford the private rent prices around here - it's about 1800 for a 3 bed. We would lose our secure tenancy and our dog as well (99% landlords dont allow pets).

But if he’s in secure self employment and earns about 40 k you can defo get a mortgage, doesn’t need to be a big one. But even if you borrowed 120k you could buy part of the house off your dad, then put it to the 200 and use that for a proper extension.

I don't know if this is possible, and all parties would need to be willing, but can you do something approximating the following:

Your dad transfer the property he is living in to you and your husband. You and your husband take out a small mortgage on the property, add this to the £200k that he has, and fund an extension that way?

That's still risky with regards to care home fees. If her father gives her the property it would likely be considered deprivation of assets. She could still end up having to sell it to pay fees. Then she could potentially end up homeless.

OP, if you're scared of mortgages and can't afford private rents, think very hard before giving up your tenancy. At the moment it's the only security you have.

Have you considered just keeping the situation as is? That way your dad's house will appreciate in value over time (long term of course) and you have a sellable asset to use as and when it is needed?

So you have a combined income of, what, 50-60k at least, but you're in council housing? With a family of 5 and paying only council rent I assume you have significant savings that you could add to his 200k to fund an extension.
Or you could do what the rest of us do and apply for a mortgage (really not that difficult for self employed people) and take on the risk associated with that. Yes it's daunting. It's also the normal way to obtain housing when both partners are in stable employment.

how much do you have in savings? You could add yours to FILs and potentially have enough to extend the house? If not the. Save hard for a few years and then do it? Your on ok salaries so should be able to save. It would make much more sense than a prefab option.

Could you do a ground floor extension, so your family have the 3 bedrooms upstairs and your Dad has a (brick built to match the house) en-suite bedroom and small lounge somewhere off the main house. So not a prefab and not separate from the house. With a 40k income you should be able to raise a mortgage to pay for it.

Sorry to drip feed - I could not go on any mortgage because I've been self employed for under a year. I have ADHD and have been very flaley with work in between having our kids. We don't have savings.

Yes I'm starting to think staying as is ... is probably the only sensible option.

It's scary to think even if we raised the money to do the extension, if DF has to go into care because I cannot manage his care alone, we would be made homeless.

Sounds like you just want to access your dad's wealth for your own benefit.
I have a 90 year old dad with property, I can see how it seems logical to move in together, but really consider your motives. Currently, I live separately from my dad in my own house, which I own. As yet, he doesn't need more care than can be provided under this arrangement. If I have to move in with him at any time, it will be for his benefit, not for mine.

I lived with my dd, son in law and dgd during lockdown, because life didn't work for us if I didn't. It was hell for us all and nearly ended our relationship.

Basically, the way you describe your intentions, it sounds to me as if you are just wanting to take over all his assets and use them for yourselves.

I thought homes didn't have to be sold to fund care if there was someone living there? Or is that just spouses?

I'm not even going to bother writing a response. You don't know my DF and you don't know me.

Its just spouses I think.