Multi generational living options - what is the answer?!

[AspenBirch]

DH & I have 3 children, we rent a 2 bed housing association property. We are in rural SW, houses fairly pricey round here. We are both self employed, not great mortgage candidates and not wanting to tie ourselves to one in any case.

My dad is living in his house owned outright and has 200k in the bank. We would all like to live together - he is in his 70s and needs more and more help, I am intending on caring for him as he gets older. We are all very close.

The issue is that his house is fairly small (though bigger than ours). It has one double bedroom and one small-ish room with a staircase in it up to a fairly high-ceilinged attic bedroom. One bathroom, small kitchen. The garden is large though.

Originally we intended to use his 200k cash to build a rear two storey extension. We've realised that the budget would need to be bigger for this now though. Also, DF was a builder/plumber/carpenter and won't entertain paying someone else to do the whole lot anyway,and even if he did would most definitely make any poor builders life a living hell with incessant interfering.

The logical step would be to sell his house (worth about 250k a few months ago) and then buy somewhere bigger, but there was a long running boundary dispute with the neighbour which makes selling a bit tricky.

I have seen these pre-fab granny annexes that look like pretty good deals. Particularly when taking into account the fact that a lot of them will also construct the entire things and do the groundworks too. Does anyone have any experience with them?

I'd be a bit worried about my family fitting into the house, but maybe it would be ok if DH and I had the attic room, our 3year old in lower small room and eldest two girls sharing the large bedroom.

I suppose I'm hoping for a solution but none of the options seems to be the answer.

How about your Dad sells his house, adds his savings, and buys/moves into a £400k property with more bedrooms?

That way you avoid all the hassle & massive cost overruns of adding an extension or granny-annex to his existing home. And there are spare rooms for if he needs live-in care, or if you need to stay over there some nights. Plus there would be £50k in the bank towards care-home fees or carers.

You wouldn't lose your council flat, but there would be a bigger house that would come your way one day, and it would accrue value more quickly than money left to depreciate in the bank.

It’s not just spouses but if it’s kids they need to be classed as dependent , that was the case with my brother who is disabled through long term mental illness and was living with dad.
OP from time to time people post about multi generational houses and usually posters come on with lots of reasons not to. I can’t help wondering if that is because somewhere we have a collective guilt about the way we treat our elderly, and don’t like to think of others dong it better. If you really love your dad and think you could care for him til the end , and no one knows how that will play out, if your DH and kids are on board, then why not.

This would definitely be a good solution. He is worried that the house is unsellable because his neighbours started a boundary dispute that went on for a very long time. It's basically resolved now but would have to be declared to any potential buyer.
Additionally, the house needs a new kitchen and bathroom, he refuses to consider selling it as it is - again DF insists he wont pay anyone to do the work as he can do it himself (he cant).

The situation is so frustrating. I cant get over to see him as much as I'd like to as I have the three children and work. I just feel like he's spending his golden years lonely and I'm really worried he will start to get ill before we have had a chance to spend decent time together again. We were always so close, I'm his only child. He has no partner or relatives.
He has wanted us all to live together for ages but theres always a reason why we cant get on and make it bloody happen.

I do think you would be wise to get professional advice before doing anything.

Thank you for your post. I would like to care for him all the way. I've just been reading some threads on elderly parents though and it is eye opening - sometimes it gets to the point where someone needs more than one person doing 24/7 care. God I really hope that doesnt happen.

Yes the elderly parents board is sobering, I was a regular on there until 7 years ago, my dad had Alzheimer’s for about 5 years and at one point needed double carers ( 2 on a shift) because his behaviour was so challenging. None of us know how we or our parents will age. Some things are risk factors for vascular dementia- overweight/ obesity , smoking, diabetes, high blood pressure. My dad had all of these at some point in his life.

I am so sorry about your Dad. Life can be so cruel. 💐

Thank you.

I recently moved into an accessible annex in my parents garden. It’s self contained and built under the 1968 caravan act so not as much hassle as needing planning permission.

It was built from groundworks to habitable in 8 weeks, although it wasn’t cheap, around £85000 I think, but we didn’t necessarily go for the cheapest option on various fittings etc.
It was built in situ by a company called Family Annex, we looked at and had quotes from around 4 or 5 other companies, and initially were going to go with another, but after the delay caused by covid, the original company had put their prices up too much, so looked again.

Overall we’re happy with it, a few snagging things to do still, but have to give it a few more months to ‘settle’ into its position before the last few bits are made
good.

I'd look into the inheritance tax rules OP. He might be below the threshold, but it's worth checking. It might make sense for him to transfer the property over to you now as a gift. I think that he would have to live for 7 years though otherwise you could be responsible for any inheritance tax after his death which could result in your losing the house. An annex might seem like a good option, but also consider whether a detached one would work for you as a family if anything were to happen to you before your girls have all grown up. Also, as a separate dwelling, planning permission may be harder than a single story extension where he has his own bedroom/bathroom/living area but shares a kitchen.

I meant if anything were to happen to him, not you, before your girls have grown up.

Think about it, though.

I think the difficult is you’re -positioning this as an altruistic act to your dad, how you are doing it out of love, but when couopled with the reality 5 of you live in a 2 bed council property, there are clearly issues with getting a mortgage, and it’s not that you’re going to live with him, you’re taking over his house,, and considering kicking him out making him live in what Is basically a static caravan in his garden. You even want his bedroom.

If you were saying you’d sleep in the caravan or the teenage girls would, you’d never dream of making him leave his home and bedroom, you’d actually live with him in his house . It would be different, but you’re not. And he doesn’t need live in carers right now.

I’m sure you are doing this out of love, but you can maybe understand why anyone would think that getting your hands on a rent free three bed house would be much preferable to your current poor living conditions and that’s why you are doing it 🤷🏻‍♀️

LAs can decide for a "discretionary disregard! of the value of a house when family are living there. Under the rules those family members should really fulfil certain conditions (being a spouse, being over 60, being disabled etc.) but they can disregard these at their discretion.

I would speak to the CAB and your local authority, who will be able to tell you where they stand on this. You need to stress that the purpose of the move is to provide your Dad with care. It is a bit of a long shot, but is worth pursuing.

Exclamation mark was not meant to be there.

Yes I understand why it could look that way.

It's not a case of "making him" live in an annexe or "wanting his bedroom" at all. Its the fact that re fab annexes are affordable whereas an extension most likely is not, additionally DF insists on doing any work to the actual house (even extensions) himself so it just wont ever happen.

He is the one mostly pushing for this to happen, I am trying to find solutions.

I'd happily go into the annexe with DH (they're lovely!) But our 3 dd's wouldn't be happy with that, and DD14 has already said she would feel scared if she was out in one and not with us.

And I'm not positioning it as altruistic whatsoever - the arrangement would benefit everyone involved, obviously.

I dont need to think about it. It is exactly what it is.

No he doesnt need carers right now. The whole point is we are trying to think of a solution for us all to be living together so that he wont need them?!?!

Sorry posted too soon. If we wait until he needs carers then I would have to take over as POA and do everything without his informed consent. I do not want to have to do that.

If you need POA, it cannot be applied for once a person has lost capacity, it has to be registered while they still understand that they are giving you the ability to manage all their financial affairs/ health affairs. It’s a bit catch 22 as really most people don’t want to think of the nasty eventuality of having someone else take over their affairs.while they are still compos mentis. My dad signed and the GP signed to say he agreed dad had capacity, but I think it was close to the wire in our case. Basically GP was being nice because he knew the family well.

If you are thinking about PofA, it needs doing now while he is capable of consenting to it - I cannot tress too highly that this is the wisest move. The PofA that I had for my OH allowed me to make the right decisions when he was terminally ill, and to deal with all sorts of financial matters on his behalf.

Sometimes it gets to the point where someone needs more than one person doing 24/7 care. God I really hope that doesnt happen

Sadly, hoping counts for little in these cases, and a sudden stroke or whatever could throw your lives into complete disarray

You said yourself that if he needed the sort of care which only a home could provide you'd face being made homeless, and on that basis alone I'm afraid I wouldn't even consider this

I've come down with covid and feeling rough as heck. Just popping back on to say thanks all for advice. Re POA - luckily we already have financial and welfare POA's in place, something DF was really keen on sorting out a few years back.

That’s good re the POA. Rest up, hope you feel better soon.