Who is liable here?

[millefeuille2]

We had engineered wood flooring put in the kitchen last winter. Installation went well, though we noticed one area that warped slightly afterwards and pointed this out to the builders. They said this was fine as the floor was settling.

This area is warping badly now. I told the builders and they came round to take a look. Their diagnosis is that the humidity from the ground is making the floor bow, and their proposed solution is to increase the allowance (currently 1cm) at one end of the room. This will involve taking up some skirting, cutting one plank, fitting a threshold - 2 guys, 1 day's work they said.

The question is, should we be paying for this? The flooring company says if the flooring is warped, it will be because the floor underneath wasn't properly prepared. The planks are good quality, no-one disagrees with that. The builders haven't yet told me a price, but I think they are expecting to be paid for this.

I just wanted to check if this is appropriate, or if I should be requesting this work for free/reduced rate, or following up with the flooring company, etc.

Thank you!

I had almost exactly the same problems, I ended up paying another contractor around £300 (day rate) to fix it. Builders wouldn't do it, said it wasn't their problem with the humidity, and you won't get anywhere with the flooring company. Problem is now fixed but it can still be very creaky in the summer months when it is more humid.

I would have expected the builders to ensure that there wasn't going to be any ingress of damp from the ground before an engineered wood floor was laid.

Thank you for the replies.

Should we push for them to sort it then?

Was it under any sort of guarantee? Not that they are always useful.

I've got a 20 year guarantee for having all my floors replaced recently. Two months later the new MDF skirting is covered in green mould. I contacted the company, they've sent me a leaflet about 'condensation'. I've asked them to replace the skirting with wood, haven't heard back yet.

There is no point repairing the wood without dealing with the underlying damp problem. The wood will just warp again. The underlying issue is somettinggyou need to deal with seperately and the flooring company are not responsible for unless they also built the underlying floor.

What is underneath the wood flooring? Is it a suspended wooden floor or concrete?

There was no contract so I'm not sure about warranty. But it's a reputable local company so it's worth asking. Thank you.

I believe it's cavity underneath. I'll double check!

Confirmed! Large cavity underneath (Edwardian house).

bump for the evening crowd

Are your airbricks all clean and unobstructed?
Where is the water main to your house and has it been replaced or tinkered with?

I'll check those out with the builders, thank you.

Tagging @pigletjohn (thank you in advance...)

I think you need a capital p @Pigletjohn

thank you 😊

"we noticed one area that warped slightly afterwards and pointed this out to the builders. They said this was fine as the floor was settling."

Sounds unconvincing to me. Why should the floor "settle?" (Meaning "subside?") Inadequate foundations for the load upon them?

Wood warps due to damp.

Was it a new floor?

You say there is a cavity underneath so presumably joists laid on dwarf walls above a ventilated void.

I think the void is damp.

Quite likely to be a leak beneath

The airbricks may also be choked or inadequate

Somebody needs go and look in the void to see if it is damp

And trace the cause.

Covering it up to hide the cause is not a solution.

Nor is squirting silicone into the wall.

Have you got a water meter?

P.s.

You mention it is a kitchen floor.

Kitchens are renowned for containing sinks, taps, drains and pipes.

Is the warping by any chance close to some of these?

We are renovating have looked in detail into wood and engineered wood flooring.

As this is a kitchen- did you buy water resistance wood flooring? Or bog standard for non, moist areas?

We were advised that the flooring need to sit in the house 2 weeks to acclimatise to the conditions before even being laid. Was this done? (no idea if actually true though?)

Surely if the builders have said its humidity from the ground, then the damp course has failed? The boards shouldn't be warped and that certainly won't settle- but get worse!

When they said that the floor was ‘settling’, they meant that the timber was adjusting to the ambient humidity of the space. This can be mitigated to some extent by letting the timber acclimatise before being laid. This won’t be settlement in the sense of foundations.

You’ll want to identify the source of the moisture causing the warping (such as your floor void). Whilst good detailing can mask the effects to some extent, water always finds a way back eventually.

Thanks all. The air bricks are fine. This was checked closely by our surveyor a year ago and he was particularly complimentary. The void below is probably damp as PPs say. Does looking into the void mean pulling the planks up?

We do have a water meter. It's just outside the house.

Do people think it's not sufficient then to do what the builders propose - create a bigger allowance?

Can anyone else weigh in on whether this should be considered a repair (we pay) or failure in installation (builders pay)?

The warping is weirdly in the middle of the room, so not particularly close to sink or drain.

@IrishSee how did you resolve your similar problem?

If you have a meter you can stop all water usage (toilet, taps) and see if it’s still spinning.
You can also ‘listen’ to pipes to see if anything is moving.
The easiest way to investigate is pull up a plank, but if that’s not possible then how close are other access points or is there a way in from under the sink with a light/camera? There are probably plumbers who have the necessary equipment or damp surveyors. Probably just as quick to get a plank removed though.
To me, sounds like a repair.

To see what's spinning, could I check please?

If the water meter is still registering a water flow. With everything off it should be still.

The ones I see have a glass dial. In the centre is an air bubble that spins when water is flowing. It is much more sensitive than watching the dial numbers. You use a torch, bale out the pit and wipe the glass.

Some districts have a different design, though, so this might not work for you

Do we think a leak is the problem here rather than just rising damp?

Water always comes from somewhere

The concept of "rising damp" is a bit like "poltergeists."

An attempt to explain something happening when you don't know the cause.

There is always a cause.

Leaks are much more common around kitchens than, say, underground springs or buried millponds.