How do buy a house in London. Just, how?

[Shinebright21]

Married, two kids, mid thirties, husband is not a first time buyer but I would be.

How? It seems absolutely impossible, and house prices are through the roof.

Anyone successfully done it? How did you work?

The younger couples I know who have bought family homes in the last few years in London have had to compromise massively on either size or location.

I’m not convinced this is a uniquely “young people today” problem, though. The fact that so many older purpose-built and conversion flats - including those with three or more bedrooms, thus intended for / lived in by families - exist in London, including in areas which have always been pricey, surely demonstrates that having to settle for a flat rather than a house has been the absolute norm for millions of Londoners for decades? Yes, the gap between wages and prices nowadays is much larger, but people on average incomes will always have had to make compromises about where they live.

I know lots of people who were stuck on the ladder despite buying pre dc who could only move due to stamp duty pause.

The fact that so many older purpose-built and conversion flats - including those with three or more bedrooms, thus intended for / lived in by families - exist in London, including in areas which have always been pricey, surely demonstrates that having to settle for a flat rather than a house has been the absolute norm for millions of Londoners for decades?

I'm not sure but I haven't come across many 4 bed purpose built flats. The upstairs flats near me do now all have loft conversions but that wasn't the norm when I was little. And of course decades ago family sizes were much bigger with mothers having dc younger.

I’m 35. Over the past decade I’ve bought fixer uppers in increasingly nice parts of London -

I wouldn't say it's normal for ftbs in London to be 25.

There is no point looking back. It’s not just ‘boomers’ who had it very different. I’m 45, and in my adult life I’ve seen prices go crazy. We bought a 4 bed semi in a decent suburb of London for 500k when my kids were small (2007

I agree, it's much harder for young people now. Although I think it's been difficult for anyone on the ladder post Brexit as price's have stagnated particularly for flats.

My point is that I live in what’s always been a reasonably affluent, leafy Zone 3 suburb. On my street and the one next to it there are two small blocks of purpose built two and three bedroom flats, one that I’d estimate is 1930s and the other 1960s. They aren’t and have never been social housing and just from their exterior appearance, they clearly weren’t built on a shoestring for those at the bottom of the market. So they must have been built with upper working and middle class couples and families in mind, and families must have lived there even back in the days when people claim that a FTBer couple with one ordinary income were routinely buying their forever houses with big gardens in their 20s. It doesn’t make any sense to believe otherwise, or they - and the thousands of other blocks like them across London - wouldn’t exist.

What is your dh’s house worth?

We bought a 2 bed flat - does that count? We are trying to buy a bigger 3 bed flat now. We lived with MIL for 3 years after graduation and bought then. We don't have DC yet and are trying to buy the bigger flat before having DC. Not that we can't have DC in a 2 bed but I don't want to get stuck...

Its been the norm for some members of MIL's community. we know a lady in her late 50s/early 60s with 2 adult daughters and they live in a 3 bed flat in z3 north london. MIL lived in a 1 bed flat in north london with 3 kids until 1997 when she could afford to upgrade- she looked at 3 bed flats, tiny 3 bed ex LA house and a doer-upper Victorian terrace( 2 bed and box room). Couldn't afford the (nice ) flats, decided against the ex LA house on the railway tracks where you couldn't swing a cat in, opted for the doer-upper. 25 years later, she has never done it up. We aren't much different, we bought a 2 bed flat in a similar area and are now looking at 3 bed flats as we also find the ex LA houses in our budget too small and we don't really want to live in a doer upper we can't afford to renovate.

A couple of my friends bought nice places via shared ownership.

I saved a deposit over about 10 years, very tough going as had to live at home.

My friend whose grandparents rented and then bought a 2 bed flat in what is now a very affluent part of north london in the 1930s (she subsequently bought same flat in the 1970s) told me that when the block was built, English people refused to move into them. So Jewish migrants as well as Italian and Spanish moved in. London has always had vibrant immigrant communities and they would have had different ideas on what is acceptable housing. Mumsnet is very English, i think.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belvedere_Court This was built for middle class Jewish refugees from Germany.

Was much easier 20 years ago. Bought a 2 bed flat in North London for £120k, sold it on a few years later for £235k. Bought a house for £320k and sold it on 5 years later for £490k. Bought a bigger house for £620k. Now worth over a million 7 years later. Can’t see how it would be possible these days with current prices.

This isn't a 4 bed, and is quite a small 3 bed in my mind but the description on the advert catches my eye:

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/120378533#/?channel=RES_BUY

Vendors thoughts:
My late husband, Douglas, and I have lived at Corringham Court for 34 years. Years of great happiness. We reared our four children there, celebrated festivals, entertained friends and family and grew old in those solid red brick walls. Now it is time to move on and pass our lovely flat to new hands.
If you are looking at my property as a possible future home, you are no doubt familiar with its many advantages - incredible location, the Heath, the garden etc. What you may not know is that beyond these physical attributes lies the greatest one of all - the neighbours. I don¿t know why Corringham Court attracts such lovely people, but it does. This is a place where you can enjoy complete privacy - and help, support, friendship and companionship when that is needed. It is something quite rare and precious, particularly in a great city like London (even more so during lockdown when our young neighbours couldn¿t do enough for us). And more important than bricks and mortar ( though they are well cared for too).

Time Machine or win the lottery.

with respect, you're wrong.
people on average wages could buy an average house in London 20+ years ago (easily, the further you go back). now you can't.
average wages might be able to afford a small property in a not great area at best. that's what has changed.
wages and property prices have not rise in sync since 90s (as you say).

the @Luggagerack example above is precisely what's happened.

What is an 'average property'. A solicitor and an accountant couple that my MIL was friendly with back in the 1990s bought a 2 bed flat in a 1930s block in north london just like DH and I did in 2019 for their first property. And at least one of them had rich parents too! They then moved onto a 2 bed house in a really nice area. i think that may be out of DH and my budget but thats because small houses have outperformed flats, including big flats. I think in the past, they may have been on par.

My point is that I live in what’s always been a reasonably affluent, leafy Zone 3 suburb.

I was born & raised in a leafy z3 suburb. I'm not saying nobody had a baby in a flat or that some children didn't grow up in flats My point was I don't think it was normal for families to only live in flats cause there's also a shit ton of houses.

there even back in the days when people claim that a FTBer couple with one ordinary income were routinely buying their forever houses with big gardens in their 20s.

who is arguing that? regardless the fact remains that FTBs are now historically older.

I grew up on a very normal road & went to a very normal school just like my DH. Everyone on my road lived in a house (the flats were lived in by younger people) with a family & the vast majority only had one parent working.

No it’s not.

utter rubbish. You can buy in Milton Keynes which is 35 mins to central London direct for half the price of a house or flat in London.

MK has seen 30% growth in the last year alone and is still rising.

Both stupid examples.

How about retraining and setting a plan to get to the higher wages to afford such a house in the capital city of the U.K.?

@Zeus44 how does that disprove my point? The property you are buying will also have gone up in value so the rung gets further away.

It's much harder to build equity these days because
ftbs are older
the bottom rung is more expensive
moving is expensive.
wages have stagnated for most over the last 2 decades.

Yes if you can buy a flat at 22 & double your salary you can then move again 10 yrs later without childcare costs impacting too much however the majority of ftbs are not 22 & are already earning well.

I suspect OP is looking for a miracle answer here...

Plenty of people buy in london. They all earn waaaaay more money than you and or have other properties, inheritance, wealthy family background. Etc etc.

Saving up "Starbucks" coffee money really won't touch the sides, to whoever suggested that. Also, Starbucks coffee... Yuck. Never! ;)

looking at 'someone I know' is not really a way to analyse the property market. look at wages vs housing prices over the last 40 years. it's there in black and white.

Both stupid examples.

I couldn't afford my house now...

How about retraining and setting a plan to get to the higher wages to afford such a house in the capital city of the U.K.?

great idea! 😆

One of these:

• have a high paying job like banking, law, management consulting, or


• have rich parents who give you a load of money, or


• inherit, or


• have a time machine

Sucks. I’m from London. Left cos priced out. People live in the commuter belt for a reason. Come to East Kent!

Why are you trying to buy in London?

What is an 'average property'

My inlaws bought a Edwardian maisonette in Wandsworth on one teachers wage & then moved to a 1930s house in the same area with 2dc. I'd say that was average.

DH has family in Hackney who paid modest prices for homes that sell for over 2m now.