How do buy a house in London. Just, how?

[Shinebright21]

Married, two kids, mid thirties, husband is not a first time buyer but I would be.

How? It seems absolutely impossible, and house prices are through the roof.

Anyone successfully done it? How did you work?

[UnnecessaryFennel]

@Sunshineona

One of these:

• have a high paying job like banking, law, management consulting, or
• have rich parents who give you a load of money, or
• inherit, or
• have a time machine

Sucks. I’m from London. Left cos priced out. People live in the commuter belt for a reason. Come to East Kent!

Exactly the same as me.

3 beds, detached, garden, 10 mins walk from the beach for the price of a 2-bed flat in Peckham. And my commute to central London only takes 20 mins longer than it did when I was living there!

I'd happily return to London if I won the lottery, but for the time being I think I'll head to the beach

[YouPutTheScrewInTheTuna]

@MortifiedMelon

We bought a house in the Morden/Sutton area. It's 50/50 social housing and private ownership. The cars are either brand new or old bangers. Houses are either falling apart or being done up to the nines.

It was a shock to move here after renting in Teddington for ages but it was important for us to buy a house.

We are now used to it and go out to eat/walk in Wimbledon and I commute in to London on the tube. We've renovated the house over the past few years and it now feels like home.

There are still houses here for £350-500k which is just about affordable for London.

PM if you want the exact location and a tour/coffee

Ah the good old St helier estate!?

[onthefencesitter]

@Housebuyingfamily

Exactly correct, they operate as community credit unions. Same with certain Asian communities too.

Gemach is good for weddings but don't think you can borrow your house deposit for it. The bank would probably have an issue with that! My MIL got her wedding dress for free using a gemach years ago and they offer free clothes and furniture as well as short term loans.

One way of earning money is going door to door for donations. My MIL would give despite not having much money herself. Like once there was this guy who came to our house when I was living with MIL asking for money to marry off his daughter and my SIL gave him some money and he said it wasn't enough. I think she gave him a bit more. Between that and the gemach and saving while living with parents, perhaps you could cobble up a deposit for a small flat and that would be your typical young couple home.

[wingingit33]

My first house was a tiny 2 up. 2 down in zone 6 so definitely "outer London" but if it wasn't for my parents and inheritance it'd never have happened. That was 2012 and was £365k.

[Housebuyingfamily]

@LivesinLondon2000

@onthefencesitter
I only know this because a relative of mine also invests heavily in property in East London and interacts regularly with them.

There are (or at least pre Covid there were) regular large auctions of up to 200 or so properties that for various reasons were difficult to sell - things like ex-local authority flats with sitting tenants, short leases that needed to be renegotiated etc.

They were often cash sales as the various issues meant you may not be able to get a mortgage on the properties so there were great bargains to hand if you had the cash available and were able to deal with any issues. The ultra orthodox Jewish community were a regular presence at these auctions both buying and selling. I would think if you are a young couple in that community, there would be lots of help potentially available to get your own property.

Exactly correct, they operate as community credit unions. Same with certain Asian communities too.

[LivesinLondon2000]

@onthefencesitter
Yes agreed - I don’t know a lot about the community but yes the impression I get is that they care more about living in a particular area where their community is than having a particular sort of house. And yes a 500K flat is more attainable than a 1million pound house.
But even a 500K flat is super expensive if you’re on a low income so I suppose the point I’m making is that they too probably need help to buy their first home.

A quick Google search tells me the average London salary is 40K (& I assume this includes older people more advanced in their careers). I find it quite depressing that it comes nowhere close to allowing you to buy any property in London. It’s unlikely that this mismatch between salaries and property prices is going to change anytime soon but at the very least we should have much stricter controls on rents and better rights for tenants to at least give people renting who may never be able to buy long term security.

[LivesinLondon2000]

@onthefencesitter
I only know this because a relative of mine also invests heavily in property in East London and interacts regularly with them.

There are (or at least pre Covid there were) regular large auctions of up to 200 or so properties that for various reasons were difficult to sell - things like ex-local authority flats with sitting tenants, short leases that needed to be renegotiated etc.

They were often cash sales as the various issues meant you may not be able to get a mortgage on the properties so there were great bargains to hand if you had the cash available and were able to deal with any issues. The ultra orthodox Jewish community were a regular presence at these auctions both buying and selling. I would think if you are a young couple in that community, there would be lots of help potentially available to get your own property.

[onthefencesitter]

@LivesinLondon2000

@onthefencesitter
The ultra orthodox Jewish community in London rely heavily on property ownership in London for their income. In particular they own lots of ex-local authority housing which they bought cheaply when it was first sold and is now worth a lot more. Profit from sales and the rent they make from the properties they keep hold of is often their main source of income.
They’ve been doing this for quite a few years and I would be very surprised if younger members of the community weren’t given financial assistance - if not from parents then from other members of what seems to be a very close-knit community - to get started.

I know many other people (not from this community and usually aged 50+) who’ve done exactly the same - bought 2 or more properties in London years ago when they were cheaper and they now rent them out and live quite comfortably on the income so don’t need to work.

In my area of zone 3 London a small 3 bed house costs £1 million +. It doesn’t take much to work out that you need to be earning a good 6 figure salary to be able to buy one of those houses on your own. So anyone else has to have had some of the money already and, unless they’ve won the lottery, it usually has come from their family.

Most of my DH's classmates even in the 1990s lived in flats. I do see a lot of them still in flats in areas near me with young DC. I mean a £500k flat near the north circular/Brent cross is very different from a £1 million house...they do have lower expectations.

[onthefencesitter]

@LivesinLondon2000

@onthefencesitter
The ultra orthodox Jewish community in London rely heavily on property ownership in London for their income. In particular they own lots of ex-local authority housing which they bought cheaply when it was first sold and is now worth a lot more. Profit from sales and the rent they make from the properties they keep hold of is often their main source of income.
They’ve been doing this for quite a few years and I would be very surprised if younger members of the community weren’t given financial assistance - if not from parents then from other members of what seems to be a very close-knit community - to get started.

I know many other people (not from this community and usually aged 50+) who’ve done exactly the same - bought 2 or more properties in London years ago when they were cheaper and they now rent them out and live quite comfortably on the income so don’t need to work.

In my area of zone 3 London a small 3 bed house costs £1 million +. It doesn’t take much to work out that you need to be earning a good 6 figure salary to be able to buy one of those houses on your own. So anyone else has to have had some of the money already and, unless they’ve won the lottery, it usually has come from their family.

Interesting, thanks! My DH grew up in an orthodox Jewish family and went to an ultra orthodox primary school so he has some insight into that world but not anymore as he went to a mainstream Jewish school for his secondary education. DH's mum is a convert and DH's paternal grandpa were typical east end jews! So while his family all own property in London and north Herts etc, it's just the family home and so there isn't loads of help available other than of course letting the kids stay at home longer. But I guess they never qualified for council housing...

[LivesinLondon2000]

@onthefencesitter
The ultra orthodox Jewish community in London rely heavily on property ownership in London for their income. In particular they own lots of ex-local authority housing which they bought cheaply when it was first sold and is now worth a lot more. Profit from sales and the rent they make from the properties they keep hold of is often their main source of income.
They’ve been doing this for quite a few years and I would be very surprised if younger members of the community weren’t given financial assistance - if not from parents then from other members of what seems to be a very close-knit community - to get started.

I know many other people (not from this community and usually aged 50+) who’ve done exactly the same - bought 2 or more properties in London years ago when they were cheaper and they now rent them out and live quite comfortably on the income so don’t need to work.

In my area of zone 3 London a small 3 bed house costs £1 million +. It doesn’t take much to work out that you need to be earning a good 6 figure salary to be able to buy one of those houses on your own. So anyone else has to have had some of the money already and, unless they’ve won the lottery, it usually has come from their family.

[onthefencesitter]

@Diamond7272

So your partner just passed probation in a job and you are 27 and didnt work for ages... And the banks gave you a mortgage of 392k minus your 70k deposit, so £320,000ish.

Morthages then were maybe 4.5 times combined salaries and often required 2 years work history in the role, so in the circumstances you described you were earning about £70,000pa between you?

This is just rubbish.

I am really tired of the "well we did it" (all on our own) argument as it isnt true, and totally devalues those peoples efforts who truly scrimped and saved for decades... It undermines what they went through.

I have so much mire respect fir people who tell the truth...

"we had massive parental help" is the opening line for 99% of people buying in London...

(This is the focus of this thread.)

I didn't say I didn't work. I found a job 2 months after coming back to London. But I was explaining why I stayed so long with family because while I could work, having no visa and a letter that you are waiting on a visa (but are allowed to stay and work in the UK in the mean time) isn't exactly the best situation to rent! I mean, it didn't make finding a job easier, but I did manage to find jobs.

All landlords require passport and proof of visa. I didn't have a visa. And my passport was with the home office for most of that time. I had an initial 6 month visa that i obtained which allowed me to work in the UK and I got my first job using that, and then after I got my job offer, I sent my passport off for the visa application.

[onthefencesitter]

@Diamond7272

Jewish men don't get GCSE's??? (your quote)

Are you feeling ok onthefencesitter??

Have you been spending too much time in Bavaria?

I'll stick with my statement... "to buy in London now, almost all young and middle aged people need significant family help"...

And a large proportion of those who receive such help pretend they haven't... Or fail to see it.

Ultra orthodox jewish men don't get GCSEs.

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/22/a-tumultuous-journey-from-ultra-orthodox-school-to-physics-degree

'Throughout his childhood, Izzy Posen was a bright boy with a curious mind. At school, he worked hard, with long hours of study stretching late into the evenings. He was a shining example to his nine younger siblings.
But at his unregistered school in the heart of the Haredi, or ultra-Orthodox Jewish, community in Stamford Hill in north London, and later at a yeshiva, or religious school, in Gateshead, Posen was taught only in Yiddish and studied only religious texts. No maths, no English, no history, no science'

[onthefencesitter]

@Diamond7272

So your partner just passed probation in a job and you are 27 and didnt work for ages... And the banks gave you a mortgage of 392k minus your 70k deposit, so £320,000ish.

Morthages then were maybe 4.5 times combined salaries and often required 2 years work history in the role, so in the circumstances you described you were earning about £70,000pa between you?

This is just rubbish.

I am really tired of the "well we did it" (all on our own) argument as it isnt true, and totally devalues those peoples efforts who truly scrimped and saved for decades... It undermines what they went through.

I have so much mire respect fir people who tell the truth...

"we had massive parental help" is the opening line for 99% of people buying in London...

(This is the focus of this thread.)

We got the mortgage in June 2019. I think we moved in our flat in October 2019.

It was 330k mortgage, i think.

We got it through a broker. Like i said, I didn't have permanent residency which is generally a condition for most mortgages. So the only way we could get a mortgage was use a broker or have 25% deposit (which we didn't have). The broker was free as DH works for a bank. Definitely wasn't working 2 years in the role. I think DH started working in the job he felt comfortable in mid 2018. Passed probation end 2018. I mean, we looked at a lot of properties and it took a long time to find a flat we both agreed on and could afford. Also got gazumped twice.

So timeline was

June 2014- Graduated from university
July 2015- married DH in Germany
June 2016- moved back to UK
June 2017- got visa
DH's first job was a contract one and then he became permanent (2016-2017) and then he left after quit for a job in late 2017 which was so toxic his own mum advised him to quit (and not to worry about the money or moving out). Then he got a job in mid 2018 which was the job we relied upon (in addition to mine) for the mortgage.


I didn't say we did it on our own. But then again, who does anything on their own. If a poor person manages to get to LSE to read economics, he still needs a parent to be his guarantor for his rental flat when he is in university! And if he doesn't have that, that is not great. My MIL had to be guarantor for my SIL when she was in university outside London.

I am just explaining how we bought london property but don't necessarily earn hundreds of thousands. Thats all I am saying.

Since we got our mortgage, we pay an extra £1000 in it every month and we are trying to move to a bigger flat that is £600k in the same area. Our combined income has increased since we got our mortgage.

[Diamond7272]

Jewish men don't get GCSE's??? (your quote)

Are you feeling ok onthefencesitter??

Have you been spending too much time in Bavaria?

I'll stick with my statement... "to buy in London now, almost all young and middle aged people need significant family help"...

And a large proportion of those who receive such help pretend they haven't... Or fail to see it.

[onthefencesitter]

@Diamond7272

Nah, this sounds like garbage.

You bought new IKEA furniture for a box room or a sisters ex bedroom?

The numbers just don't work.

I'll say 'i believe you' if it makes you happy.

'I BELIEVE YOU'... There you go. WELL DONE. JOLLY GOOD SHOW OLD BEAN.

There, done.

That was in Germany. I met DH when we were in university and he went to Germany to do his masters degree. I moved there to be with him and we married. He rented a studio apartment there and in germany, the rentals are usually unfurnished. We worked in Germany for a bit before moving back; it was a condition of his masters degree and also it was quite handy as it meant we qualified for the visa back in the uk (you can look it up, its called surinder singh).


I mean, DH grew up in London and most people in our friends' circle own property, he is 32. Yes most have had help but there is one who I don't think had help (and she rented). But her price bracket is quite similar to us(£425k) and she bought only this year. Of course she bought a 3 bed house in zone 6 in East London but it cost the same as our 2 bed flat in zone 3 north london.

I am not saying what we did is an achievement, i am just saying that its not just rich people who buy london property. London is a diverse city of 9 million people and 50% of them are home owners. Not all of them are old people or rich people. yes, people like us tend to buy flats and smaller properties and definitely not a million pound flat. I mean, if you think about it, how do the ultra orthodox jewish population (who are mainly in stamford hill with some presence in north london) own property for example?The men don't even get GCSEs, the women have to get jobs that work around their large families. Not all of them live in social housing or get housing benefit? Some of them do own property and while they probably do get financial help, the average family size of 4-7 kids must mean that the inheritance is somewhat diluted? How do they do it? And while some have moved to manchester or canvey island, most don't want to leave london due to the community that they have here.

[Diamond7272]

So your partner just passed probation in a job and you are 27 and didnt work for ages... And the banks gave you a mortgage of 392k minus your 70k deposit, so £320,000ish.

Morthages then were maybe 4.5 times combined salaries and often required 2 years work history in the role, so in the circumstances you described you were earning about £70,000pa between you?

This is just rubbish.

I am really tired of the "well we did it" (all on our own) argument as it isnt true, and totally devalues those peoples efforts who truly scrimped and saved for decades... It undermines what they went through.

I have so much mire respect fir people who tell the truth...

"we had massive parental help" is the opening line for 99% of people buying in London...

(This is the focus of this thread.)

[Diamond7272]

Nah, this sounds like garbage.

You bought new IKEA furniture for a box room or a sisters ex bedroom?

The numbers just don't work.

I'll say 'i believe you' if it makes you happy.

'I BELIEVE YOU'... There you go. WELL DONE. JOLLY GOOD SHOW OLD BEAN.

There, done.

[onthefencesitter]

@Diamond7272

Just doing a bit more maths (it's a quiet evening) onthefencesitter, between you and your partner - taking into account the value in kind of living with 1 set of inlaws fir 3 years - you saved 70,000 over the term, but really just 23,500 if your folks had made you face real life conditions...

So that's 11,750 each partner contributed in saving over 3 years, so about £3900 per person per year was your true rate of saving - or rather the saving that any other person could achieve who didn't get to live in your circumstances.

So, basically, you both did OK, nothing to write home about (if you excuse the pun), and you wouldn't have had a hope in hell at that rate of buying anything at 27 and 29yrs without the generosity of someones parents...

Some might say it's rude to break this all down, but i think it's rude to state "we did it" without ( hundreds of thousands) of family help, when in fact two thirds of your savings came from the good grace of family and your true rate was a shade under £4000 each saved per year...

Ouch.

One reason why we stayed so long with family was because of my visa. When I moved back to the UK, the home office took 8 months to issue my visa (it was a EU visa so they could take their own sweet time plus it coincided with the eu referendum). I was allowed to work and I did work for 10 out of that 12 months but it meant I couldn't really rent because the home office had my passport for almost all that time! Plus if they refused my visa, it wouldn't be a good position to be in! DH's mum didn't really have space but she didn't really want us to be homeless. At that time, Theresa May was PM so she was really hard on the 'hostile environment for foreigners'.

So basically after they issued my visa and DH passed probation at a job he could see himself long term at, we were in a position to rent but at that time, i think we had saved enough to consider buying so we spent the next year and a half property searching. Thats how it happened. which is why when we bought, I didn't even have permanent residency. I have settled status now which is a good thing.

[onthefencesitter]

@Diamond7272

Lol onthefencesitter

2 of you lived in London rent free for 3yrs with 1 of your sets of parents and you don't think that was a massive leg up financially?

A 1 bed flat in London averages 1250pcm, so that's 36 x £1250, about £40,000.

You presumably didnt have to pay full council tax for 2 people on that flat for 3 yrs, so thats easily another £5000.

You missed out on estate agent fees, inventories etc, another £1500.

Crikey, by 'just' living with family 3 years - presumably in a spare bedroom, not under the stairs of a 2up-2 down, you saved a minimum of £46,500 in 3 yrs, so really - any normal person without such accommodating parents/in laws - would, at your rate, have just saved £23,500.

Thats just 6% of what you paid for your 392k flat, ie: NOWHERE NEAR THE GOING RATE FOR A DEPOSIT, and was really just 4 or 5% when you take into account surveys, solicitor fees, stamp duty etc.

thus, like i've said before, it was only possible because your parents massively helped you out.

Again, shame kicks in... You didnt really 'do it' on average salaries with a lot of sacrifice, but you like to think you did.

We lived in a 3 bed terraced house with DH's mum and three sisters (it is actually a 2 up 2 down but it had a box room that used to be part of the bathroom plus a kitchen extension). One of his sisters moved to israel so we took her room! I am not disputing it was't help but it wasn't hundreds of thousands;and DH's mum earns below minimum wage. DH was on free school meals, so from a fairly poor london family. Of course not everyone can do it, but there are so many young people who work in London whose parents live in the commuter belt and in Greater London itself!

Didnt pay estate agent fees cos it was a first property. Stamp duty was a few k, stamp duty for first time buyers.

[Diamond7272]

Just doing a bit more maths (it's a quiet evening) onthefencesitter, between you and your partner - taking into account the value in kind of living with 1 set of inlaws fir 3 years - you saved 70,000 over the term, but really just 23,500 if your folks had made you face real life conditions...

So that's 11,750 each partner contributed in saving over 3 years, so about £3900 per person per year was your true rate of saving - or rather the saving that any other person could achieve who didn't get to live in your circumstances.

So, basically, you both did OK, nothing to write home about (if you excuse the pun), and you wouldn't have had a hope in hell at that rate of buying anything at 27 and 29yrs without the generosity of someones parents...

Some might say it's rude to break this all down, but i think it's rude to state "we did it" without ( hundreds of thousands) of family help, when in fact two thirds of your savings came from the good grace of family and your true rate was a shade under £4000 each saved per year...

Ouch.

[Diamond7272]

Lol onthefencesitter

2 of you lived in London rent free for 3yrs with 1 of your sets of parents and you don't think that was a massive leg up financially?

A 1 bed flat in London averages 1250pcm, so that's 36 x £1250, about £40,000.

You presumably didnt have to pay full council tax for 2 people on that flat for 3 yrs, so thats easily another £5000.

You missed out on estate agent fees, inventories etc, another £1500.

Crikey, by 'just' living with family 3 years - presumably in a spare bedroom, not under the stairs of a 2up-2 down, you saved a minimum of £46,500 in 3 yrs, so really - any normal person without such accommodating parents/in laws - would, at your rate, have just saved £23,500.

Thats just 6% of what you paid for your 392k flat, ie: NOWHERE NEAR THE GOING RATE FOR A DEPOSIT, and was really just 4 or 5% when you take into account surveys, solicitor fees, stamp duty etc.

thus, like i've said before, it was only possible because your parents massively helped you out.

Again, shame kicks in... You didnt really 'do it' on average salaries with a lot of sacrifice, but you like to think you did.

[onthefencesitter]

@FurierTransform

Any young couples currently buying on London either have massive family help to the tune of £hundreds of thousands, or both work in the high paying industries with household Income £200k+

lol. No family help with hundreds of thousands. Don't earn anywhere near £200k.

We bought at 27 and 29. When we first got married after university, we were so poor we could barely afford the delivery for ikea furniture! We just lived with family in London, saved up 70k in 3 years (on low salaries for at least half of that time) and bought a 2 bed flat in zone 3 north london for £392k

[Diamond7272]

It is demoralising...

Wealthy people fear 1 thing above all - that their children will be unsuccessful, something they can't talk about to their friends. It is so much easier to buy them a house, an apartment, a new BMW, to present this image of family success, than it is to admit that they paid for a £200,000 education and their child is just normal, a 2.2, 'could do better'...turned down from the graduate trainee scheme at McDonalds or Chicken Shack, that kind of thing.

I have seen so many parents talking at fundraisers about buying their 18yr old child a flat in London because 'rents are so high and it is a good investment'... What they mean is that their child doesnt want to live in halls and the parents have a golden opportunity to show their success and astute economic prowess, like they know something secret about property in Chelsea that no one else does.. (croydon is NOT for them)

It's all a game of 1 upmanship among the rich with property impressive and attainable with money - try getting the child to garner respect via hard work and a 1st class degree (you can buy property not ability or effort).

Anyway, that's how all young people i have come into contact with buy property in London today.

Property is, like it or not, the most outward symbol of wealth and success. But it is also the easiest medium through which to mask an 'average' 20-something and turn him or her into the child they always wanted - and dream husband or wife for their banking friends sons or daughters (yep, v common).

[coffeecart]

@Diamond7272

I worked in a very, very posh, elite private school in a senior role. Every now we would have reunions and fundraisers with past alumni parents...

They all wouls swear blind that 22yr old Annabel or Chi Chi (yep, she exists) had graduated from Oxford (reality, Oxford Brooks) with a 2.1 (reality 2.2) in business and economics (reality theatre studies and fashion) and had won a place at Goldman Sachs on their graduate trainee programme (reality, mummy had asked her interior designer friend to ask her husband Giles to give the 'poor' girl an internship), and now their darling daughter was buying a flat in Wimbledon and enjoying her weekends in Boujis...

You think I'm kidding.

Nope, in the private school world such utter bs and self promotion/promotion of ones children is just another part of the social ladder...

9.99/10 mummy and daddy bought the children properties outright, then aged 25 Chi Chi would marry Hugo, ex Eton, daddy set up Wonga-type, and they would be buying in Battersea a nice townhouse.

That's how people do it.

Not all my colleagues (although, private schools remain a club, posh teachers as well... State school educated teachers dont know anything about Common Entrance or 13+ Marlborough Scholarship exams), but the reality is that everyone lies that they had 'no help' and did it all on their own, but the reality today is that they all had/needed help in some shape or form, at least 100k upfront, often triple or more.

Posh parents dont like others knowing this as it makes their offspring look less successful, indeed spoilt and indulged...

Shame is a powerful thing. Brings out the bs in housing conversations.

I'm trying to buy a flat in London at the moment and recently lost out on one to these types of people.

£995,000 2-bed flat (expensive area). Parents paid the entire amount in cash and said it was a graduation present for their daughter.

I know people can do what they like with their money and to an extent I am just bitter. But fuck it's demoralising.

[seabass69]

@Fupoffyagrasshole

Yeah I couldn’t do it now I have my child. ! We bought while I was pregnant ! Didn’t dare even try for a baby until we had the deposit saved tbh

sorry not helpful

Why is this? Because you have less cash now due to childcare?