Do downsizers ever downsize?

[NewbieOnHolidays]

We’ve seen so many detached family houses with husband and wife in their 50-60s (kids grew up and left), so now just 2 people living on 200+ sq.m. They all say they want to downsize, put house on the market at an astronomical price and fail to get offers anywhere close to asking and then just take it off the market. So once again a house came up, after 3 weeks they managed to get about 10 people who wanted to view, did an open day, we put an offer below asking, were now told there were 5 offers with 3 above asking, so they rejected our offer. We’ve been in this boat so many times and it always end up same way: we compete against non existent buyers who are very keen, offer way above asking, then we see the house keeps staying on the market or just disappears without sstc. Same street couple of months ago after 3 rounds of best an final competing against “many interested couples” and upping our offer every time we just got fed up and walked away, in few weeks sellers took it off the market. Do downsizers ever downsize?

Good job you don’t need future generations to pay your state pension and look after you in old age eh?

No worries on that score I have completely covered myself financially for when I retire, state pension or no state pension, some of us think about how our life choices will impact our future and plan accordingly.

@Chaoslatte do you really believe what you are saying here?

do you really feel societies faults lie at the door of every single person ina. Generation?

I have enjoyed significantly more freedoms and access to travel and technologies that my parents generation did not. Yes house prices were lower for them - but they also struggled though incredibly high interest rates. My mum also had to leave work when she became pregnant and suffered from a lot of sexism during her education and working life. My dad sofferedbwork related injuries because of the incredibly poor health and safety standards in the 1970s,

you talk about pensions - my dad lost his private pension, as did many people during the 1990s.

this hatred and anger at what is my parents generation just because they live in houses that you want is ridiculous and entitled.

My father in law and his partner have just downsized from a fully refurbished, good sized Victorian three bed with a lovely garden, garage and drive. They've bought an apartment with two small bedrooms and an open plan living space with a balcony over the river. The building looks old but I think it's quite modern.

They've had to get rid of so much stuff but I applaud them for it. Less housework and maintenance, smaller bills. Who needs all that stuff really? The apartment cost them about 20k less than their house so they haven't saved much by downsizing.

@Mellowyellow222 what do you think I’m saying? My response to that poster was that even on a selfish level we need other people to have children so that when we’re old we have care workers and doctors to look after us, and to pay the state pension- there is no pot that your NI contributions are paid into and saved for your retirement, state pension is paid by current workers. I don’t think anything is the fault of a particular generation and I didn’t say it was or even mention any generations specifically. What I think is the problem is people not feeling any sense of duty towards their community and just doing what they want even to the community’s detriment. I don’t want your house or your parent’s house, I’ve got one thanks. It’s a 2 bedroom because I don’t think I should take up room that other people need just because I’m rich! I was brought up to believe selfishness is the worst characteristic and that you should always think of others. Clearly not everyone else was brought up with these values.

I don’t think it is selfish to have spare bedrooms. I have three.

I too was raised to think of others - I follow my own moral
compass in this regard and give back quite a lot of time to my local community.

I don’t think your values are superior to mine because I don’t think I am personally responsible for solving someone else’s housing issues.

the problem is that, in some areas, the housing stock doesn’t match need. We have a free market. Lots of people have spare bedrooms - the world over. Pointing to a childless/child free couple or single (of whatever age) and saying they should only live in a small house isn’t reasonable.

I bought a four bed in a good school catchment area because it is close to a bus route for work, close to my family, has room for a decent home office and has a beautiful garden. I don’t think I am morally flawed for not stopping to think someone with children is more deserving of this space.

I don’t think I am a bad person. And I don’t think the older generation are selfish if the don’t want to sell their homes before they are ready just so someone else can have it.

I am passionate about the freedoms we have in this society and I really dislike this attempt to shame people for exercising those freedoms.

I was brought up to believe selfishness is the worst characteristic and that you should always think of others. Clearly not everyone else was brought up with these values.
So you think "no, you go first" ... and then get upset when people do?

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow why should the people who have made a fortune from their house at the expense of younger peopel not pay stamp duty?

Why would you pay stamp duty to size doen? It doesn’t make financial sense.

So we don’t downsize and get blamed for everything. Burnt as scalded. If everyone who hates us wants our houses, it’s stamp duty that’s stopping people moving. It’s not urgent to move, we don’t need more space, so we stay put. Why would anyone pay 20k or whatever to go into smaller accommodation?

No, I just find it sad when people suffer because others don’t do the same.

So you think if every person over 60 and every childless adult sold their house it would solve the housing crisis?

where would they go?

there would be a spike in demand for smaller row and three bed homes with gardens. Prices in this segment of the market would rocket and first time buyers and families with smaller budgets would be priced out.

yes it might benefit wealthier families who can afford the larger homes - but surely others would suffer. Unless more houses are built it’s a zero sum game?

@Chaoslatte you say you are rich and live in a two bed because it would be selfish to have a larger space that someone else could use.

out of interest - would it be selfish to extend this house? If you want more space but are sacrificing this for the greater good - would building space that wouldn’t otherwise be there be morally acceptable?

The climate emergency is caused by overpopulation- it’s just that nobody wants to talk about that. So if you are truly evangelical about the climate emergency the most important thing you can do is not have children (and not eat meat a close second). As for the state pension argument - there won’t be a state pension in a couple of decades for those who have worked and paid in all their lives - it will be taken off those deemed to not need it. I’m quite sure those who haven’t had children or who are older people have paid in to the pension pot quite sufficiently. The ageism and nastiness to those who are older or who don’t have children is shocking on this thread. And the person who deemed themselves selfless - hmm. True kindness and selflessness is very different. Having children is a choice - it doesn’t make you more worthy than other people, or a better person or superior to others. It is our choice - it’s not a selfless one, people do not procreate to pay other people’s pensions or support others in care homes, they do it because they want to have their own kids, nothing more than that. And that is fine. But let’s not attribute selflessness and superiority to it.

No I don’t think it would solve it (wages are another issue) but more inventory certainly helps. If you’ve got overcrowded families in 2 and 3 beds (or even 1 bed like my friend) and single people and couples in 4 and 5 beds, selling their houses to each other obviously helps on the micro level.

If people are overcrowded in 3 beds then they have irresponsibly had more children than they can adequately house - how is that the fault of elderly people?

Okay but can those in the smaller homes afford the larger homes?

in your solution I sell my four bed to a family experiencing overcrowding. I bought this house a year ago - there was a bidding war with lots of people bidding. The family experiencing overcrowding could have bought it then but didn’t - I assume because of affordability.

do I take a financial hit and say I will sell with a significant discount to a family with children? Do I then spend the ready of my life mourning the loss of my beautiful house and never being able to have a large garden just beciase I don’t have children?

Your brand of selflessness seems very harsh on one section of society

I’m not sure the state pension will be taken away. We pay NI for it. And it’s paid by the generation below. So it would have to be recompensed in some way.

I don’t think it will be gone in 2 decades. It’s too complex. And also we won’t always have a nasty government in power.

This argument actually reminds me of the days when people justified paying ‘family men’ more than women in the workforce because they had a family to support!

i have a well paid job- a natural extension of this argument is I should stand down and give my job to someone with children because they would put the salary to better use than I would! Where does it end?

If I was a gambling woman I would lay money it will be taken off a large section of society within two decades - those deemed not to need it regardless of having paid in all their lives….

@Mellowyellow222 maybe they could have afforded it if you didn’t keep bidding up? Small houses can be beautiful. They can even have large gardens if you find one a developer hasn’t got to yet. I find it strange that you would ‘mourn’ a house. It’s just bricks.

@LoveLabradors it’s not necessarily their fault either. Maybe their second child turned out to be twins. Maybe they were adequately housed until they needed to move for work and couldn’t find anything in the new area.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow I fully expect that I won’t get a state pension. I don’t think they will get rid of it entirely but I think by the time I retire it will probably be means tested.

But I don’t know who I was bidding against. I stand aside and decide it would be selfish of me to have a house that someone else might want because I have a lower standing in society as a childless woman - then god forbid it is bought by a retired couple, a childless man?

I actually bough the house form a childless man in his fifties.

insuppose I just don’t accept that I am less deserving because I didn’t have a family. You may think smaller houses are beautiful - but why should your preferences trump mine?

and why should I have the same emotions as you? You say you are this selfish highly moral person - but you seem to expect everyone to conform with your own version of morality.

If I was a gambling woman I would lay money it will be taken off a large section of society within two decades - those deemed not to need it regardless of having paid in all their lives….

But this is assuming we have the same government that we have now. Europe has much more generous pensions than the U.K. Will they be removed too?

I actually also think that the state pension will be severely stripped back, and that it'll happen under any government because it'll have to. I don't think we're at all prepared for the ageing population coupled with the growth in life expectancy, and how utterly unaffordable it is. It also makes it impossible to see how the NHS can continue without total reform, probably by no longer being free at the point of use.

But I don't see why any of that means that older people are obligated to sell their houses if they don't want to, or what it's got to do with it!

@HardbackWriter - I meant as in the notion that people are having kids to pay future pensions - it’s a fallacy as I do not think there will be universal pensions in a few short years regardless of a working life of paying in. The pensions will be required to support those who haven’t worked and who cannot live in elderly poverty. For instance like post soviet Russia when the elderly lost all their pensions and lived in poverty. With much of this country a dwindling amount of net contributors will cause problems with pensions and all public services and the NHS. Like you I agree that it will not be a Tory or Labour issue, the state pension will have to be taken from many people regardless of who is in power.

How exactly have they made their money at the expense of younger people?