Anyone had architect design completely unrealistic?

[Beyondsnoop]

Paid over £5k to an architect for extension drawings according to our budget. Also noting that cost of materials going up so allowed extra for that but prepared for more. V specific that we were flexible on what we wanted but we only have so much money hence employing an architect as the expert.

Gone to get a builder and the v few that will quote, are giving base prices over double our budget. Literally an extra £150k. Architect is saying get more quotes they are too high and ‘price of materials’. But firstly, we can’t be getting quotes forever, and secondly would you trust a quote in budget when everyone else is saying it’s much more expensive in reality?

Also some have broke down the quotes for us (how embarrassing, all that work to tell them we can’t afford it) and the components look like reasonable figures you would expect to us. It’s the whole bloody plans that don’t add up.

Not sure how to move forward with this.

Hi OP

That doesn't sound great. Is it possible that what you said you want isn't actually possible for your budget (I know that you said you were flexible but if you said that you wanted an extra x metres and a glass roof (say) then they've included it)? A friend is an architect and one of the things he finds most difficult is when a client tells him what they want and then tells him the budget and he has to tactfully tell them that the two won't match up - sometimes they listen but quite often it goes over their heads.

Or has your architect got all excited and fancy and not really paid attention to the overall budget? I've never had a building project that hasn't gone miles over budget and deadline - it may be that they assume there is flexibility that isn't actually there.

thanks for response.

No the budget was pretty much all we were fixed on. He’s actually been more adventurous than we asked for (changing location of kitchen etc) as we thought some of it would be too expensive. He assured us not.

We were (are!) pretty easy going but I can’t see a way out this. Just to have some expensive drawings with nowhere to go.

Yes, we did. Told the architect we has 100k for whole job (including kitchen) his design was quoted at the lowest value of 3 quotes at 180k with no kitchen included. So frustrated. We didn't go ahead and feel we wasted thousands on the architect.

Now having a smaller piece of work done (which we feel architect should have suggested) which starts soon - eeek!

You need to push back firmly to the architect. He did not deliver what you asked for. Double is way over costs and ge needs to do his job. Don't him fob you off with asking for more quotes

But this is not how it works. The architects really have no idea how much your building quotes will be.

Our architects drew up the plans and presented a detailed list of works. We took that to three builders and got three vastly different quotes. At no point did our architect tell us they had designed to our budget (which we did give them and they did say it was a realistic budget). As it was, all the quotes came in higher than we had expected. Ours did work out at £2500/square metre. This was 6 years ago though.

Also our architects would never explicitly tell us how much they thought it would cost us. They just said our budget was ok

Can you turn it back to him and get him to recommend a builder he trusts that can do a quote so that you can compare the new quote with his breakdown (I assume he has also provided a breakdown?) so that he can explain the difference and can redo update the design to bring it back to your required budget?
What does he say when you say that this isn't what you asked for?

Apparently it’s not an architect’s job to design to a budget. I think they’re totally unsuited to working on average home extensions where the budget is very inflexible and there aren’t a range of other professionals around to adjust the spec.

But this is not how it works. The architects really have no idea how much your building quotes will be.

Ah OK. I see. The only reason we employed the architect was to see if the project was feasible within our budget and for him to draw it with that in mind and oversee. We told him that. Otherwise what’s the point? I don’t get it? He put high and low estimates of the cost on the plans.

What we now have is a plan for something that we would never spend that amount of money on. We understand that costs will go up and to allow for that, but our starting point is including that and more!

We didn't go ahead and feel we wasted thousands on the architect

that’s how we feel if I’m honest and I don’t see a good solution to get out of it. Not sure what to do!

Hi,
Would you be willing to share your plans?

The things that cost a lot more and that in my view builders don’t want are:

• bespoke staircases (open thread, industrial, whatever)


• Non-standard RSJ sizes or in-frame designs


• Complex UFH if concreting or damp membrane repair needed


• Non standard finishes like coving, flooring, pocket doors, plumbing away from exterior walls etc.

is it clear what part of your design has added the costs?

Although I agree that architects don’t design to budget, most do have a gut feel based on other projects.

I forgot to ask reconfiguring internal walls to my list of builder pain points, plus difficult access/parking.

We also found many builders wouldn’t quote from architects plans and wanted structural diagrams. They said this was because the designs somethings aren’t even feasible and miss out structural aspects. If you don’t have them yet, they could be building in a lot of contingency.

It’s all ready to go so the structural engineer has done their bit and the plans are ready to go.

Il see if I can upload the plans. There is nothing ‘bespoke’. There is a double height extension but not very big, but there is quite a bit of reconfiguration inside, moving walls etc to make it work. This was the bit we were worried about, but again was assured and even more was done that we thought originally would be unaffordable. It needed to be less than £150k and we would buy the new kitchen on top.

Its the internal work that’s way way over budget in the main.

Is he registered - can you put in a complaint or work your way througthe complaints procedure?

If you have gone in with a clear budget and requirements that he hasn't attempted to meet then he should either have told you that what you wanted want possible or refused your job or said I can do what you want for twice the budget or show you what you can get for your budget, so you would have had the choice.

If he can't or won't do what you have asked in any way then it just seems to be a scam and he deserves to have a complaint filed against him!

Yep. We told our architect our budget (40-50k and he created the plan and then many builders told us that was bonkers and that realistic cost was £100-150k and that architects just don’t know or care what stuff costs 🤨

Do you need to have steel support beams put in where you are removing walls, op?

My builders have always reworked the architect plans. They are never workable in my experience.

I've never hired an architect other than for window change, small job, but from what I've seen from friends and family who have, it appears that they don't care so much about what you want or can afford, rather something fancy or avant garde or whatever will look good in their portfolio of work. I would think designing to budget should be a major factor in what they do, given the price they charge. I would ask them to redo it with your budget in mind, as it should have been done.

Struggling with the plans, the name of the architect is all over them, will try and omit before posting.

The internal changes are just plasterboard walls, no structural. There’s 3 RSJ’s, 1 for the bifolds replacing 2 sets of French doors, 2 for the extension.

The extension is 20 square metres across both floors, new bit of roof designed to have minimal impact on existing roof structure. Rendered block work, no brick.

The black box of cost with this is the large chunk of internal work which is over a third of the overall budget.

Obviously we can we reconsider what we want to do (probably without the architect!) but I guess, hoping someone might have a brilliant idea we’ve not thought of!

Also how should we have gone about this? Feel a bit sick at the lost £5+, thought we were doing the right thing.

Thank you all so much for the replies, they’ve made me feel so much better, even if we are stuffed!

Also the architect told us no builder would take us seriously unless we have proper plans and gone through planning etc so not to bother speaking to them. With the builders we’ve met, who seem quite friendly and open, I don’t think this is true now. Have we been had?

I don't think for an ordinary extension you need an architect. It sounds as if yours designed a dream home for you, not a practical one.

Look around your area and see if anyone's got the kind of extension you're thinking about. Knock on the door or leave a note asking if they'd recommend the builder who did it for them. Contact those builders, explain what you need. Forget any fancy finishes or anything you don't have to do. (Friends of mine just paid £18k for a fancy roof lantern when £5k for Velux windows would have done the job) Refer them back to the extension they did at number 52 (or whatever) as your style guide. Ask them to price up for it.

When you've agreed what you want you may need to get a structural engineer to draw up some basic plans and away you go. I think when some construction companies are given a set of smart architect's plans with fancy detailing they assume you have loads of money to spend. Architects are great at throwing away clients' money. Also be aware that most builders are really busy but are struggling with the price of materials going through the roof, so they may be frontloading the costs in case, by the time they get round to your job, prices have soared. Good luck.

Yes us
Our architect designed our extension with a pitched roof instead of a flat one which needs way more steel. Our builder quotes have been eye watering because of the price of steel but also the labour involved in cutting and fitting and building it all.

Stupid architect just thought of the design and us novice home owners didn't realise the implications until later

Just noticed your 12.59 post. Not sure where you live so not sure whether you have permitted planning (means you don't need PP). The architect was talking nonsense if he said no builder would look at you if you don't have architectural plans.

The Planning Portal is down at the moment but you can check here on Monday:
www.planningportal.co.uk/permission/responsibilities/planning-permission/permitted-development-rights

You say you're removing French doors and putting in bifolds. Bifolds are expensive and I'm seeing lots of them being removed around me after people got fed up with them. They leak, they can be draughty and they can need regular maintenance. Have large-pane modern sliding doors instead and save yourself some money.

If you want to stick to your budget, you're probably going to have to sacrifice some of your features.

Lots of issues with architects then!

Thank you. We already have planning permission, bat survey done, the works.

On reflection I see that bi folds might not be for us. It was put in as a given really, led by the architect again. There are nice alternatives to the ones we’ve got.

Its funny you mention local builders. He told us he had spoken to one of the trusted builders round here who said the plans looked realistic to budget in the drawing stage. The same builder then came round to quote when they were done, but we never heard back. We’ve chased, and others we know he has got back to but not us.

We have had major struggles getting quotes back in general, they come and take a look and then never get back to us. I thought that it was just because they were busy.

The architect said he can help design any cost savings with the builder when we get a cheaper quote (he states the quotes we are getting are too high and he has other projects that are much bigger but cheaper) but that’s not going to happen is it!

I cannot face sitting with him at the moment. We are going to redesign it ourselves, already come up with a lot of ideas but it’s so depressing. It’s exactly the same situation as when we first sat down with the architect, just now we are 5 grand lighter.

Hope this serves as a warning to others!

Really sorry you've ended up in this situation OP, can you raise it with the architect's employer?

We did the informal chat with a couple of builders before having plans drawn up and found they were happy to give a rough guide on costs. I've heard lots of people recently though saying builders are insisting on plans now, before giving estimates, as they're so busy.

I think overall, on an average residential extension, a quantity surveyor is much more useful than an architect.