Building works - quiet periods over nap time

[LondonNQT]

A and B live in terraced properties and share a party wall. B is due to commence an extensive renovation of their property - A has two children aged 2 and 4.

A has requested that the builders stop work every day during nap time - they would like this included in the party wall agreement.

Is this reasonable?

No not at all reasonable does A think the world revolves around them. Omg can you imagine any builder agreeing to such a request oh yes A we will stop work whenever your child wants a nap. No problem we will just tell our families we are going to be 3 hours late home just so A is not inconvenienced

Unreasonable

Absolutely bat shit crazy request!!!

I can understand A's frustration. Neighbours building work is annoying to put up with, but it is a fact of life. Most have probably been on both sides of the situation at some stage.

I think agreeing to no loud work on the party wall during nap time is a fair compromise. Having said that, coming round constantly and trying to dictate the rest of the build would piss me right off, to the extent that I would be tempted ensure loud work was happening elsewhere on site during nap time. But I'm petty like that.

I love this thread. Sounds like something I would request to be put in a party wall agreement. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one obsessing about naps :-D

That is probably one of the most ridiculous first world problems I have ever heard. Of course it's not reasonable!

I don’t think it’s actually about the naps @Sandrine1982 - at no point have they said their child doesn’t sleep well for example.

It would appear that angst over our build is a bit of a pet project for her. I was checking the planning portal on a weekly basis and she emailed to ‘congratulate’ us on getting this before I even knew. So she must have been checking every day.

When the builders dig the foundations for our kitchen extension they realised that their kitchen extension, built by previous owners, doesn’t have any foundations for the last metre. Once they poured out foundations it would be very difficult to fix so our builder felt very strongly that we should tell them and give them the opportunity to sort this. It would delay us by two weeks but it was that serious. She said the lack of foundation on their property was the builders fault, and was not polite about it either.

She was incredibly worried when the scaffolding went up that someone would use it to break into her DD’s bedroom on the second floor - sash windows without restrictors it would appear. She wanted the builders to remove the ladders from every floor, not just the ground floor, every night in order to prevent this. When we said this wasn’t practical she insisted we install a scaffolding alarm, which we did just to try and keep the peace.

They bought their house about not long before we bought ours - theirs, ostensibly, needs no structural work. It is sandwiched, however, between two properties that are/were untouched for 45 years in our case. At some point the neighbours on the other side will sell and the new owners will need to do the same. If you’re so sensitive to noise/get stressed (whatever their issue is) why buy that property? It’s clearly unsuited to your lifestyle.

So your neighbour said that the lack of foundations under HER existing kitchen extension was somehow YOUR builder's fault or her builder from years ago?

@BruceAndNosh

So your neighbour said that the lack of foundations under HER existing kitchen extension was somehow YOUR builder's fault or her builder from years ago?

Yes - exactly that @BruceAndNosh.

Sorry, meant she was blaming our current builder.

@NigellaAwesome
I think agreeing to no loud work on the party wall during nap time is a fair compromise.

🤣🤣🤣 and yet it isn't reasonable at all! Setting concrete and plaster doesn't stop for 2 hour naps... neither will contractors stop and wait around for 2 hours mid working day. It is shockingly unreasonable and no building team (nor neighbour having work done disrupting their house) would agree to this.

So there's two people so far in the country - OPs NDN and Nigella - as a minority who would ask this!!

The knocking daily to interrupt builders and repeatedly ask them to stop during her child's nap time, is horrible behaviour. They've already said no and to leave them to get on with their work, OP has said no too.

Sounds like OPs builders have done NDN a favour by pointing out poor quality of work on their NDNs previous extension foundation (ie none for the last metre) which they have limited time to fix.

The rest of it is batshit. NDN cannot blame buildlers using scaffolding (which takes ages to put up) for potential break ins due to their (NDN) lack of security on their own bedroom windows- that is for NDN to put secure locks on- who doesn't have lockable windows these days? Does she not understand that burglars sometimes use ladders or can climb up on fences/brickwork or pipes without needing scaffolding!! Her house insurance would be invalid if they found out that their house is not secured.

@LondonNQT

Sorry, meant she was blaming our current builder.

😂😂 batshit neighbour

Talk about shooting the messenger

I’ve now been asked to not speak to them on the street (I thought good morning/afternoon etc was just common courtesy) as I did so aggressively and it’s causing upset. There have been tears in their house over it and it’s affecting the children.

Jesus wept.

@LondonNQT

I’ve now been asked to not speak to them on the street (I thought good morning/afternoon etc was just common courtesy) as I did so aggressively and it’s causing upset. There have been tears in their house over it and it’s affecting the children.

Jesus wept.

Well, since they are getting antagonist I would reeeaally want to send a typed cease and desist letter to them.

Dear neighbour,

Please cease and desist knocking at or calling to or at our family home, number X Our Street... it is our property and we do not want to have any further calling at or to our home by you.

You have done so daily and it is disrupting work of our builders and our peace.

No, the builders will not stop their work during the daytime for 2 hours so that your children can have a nap, they said no, we have said no to this unreasonable request, and you making a nuisance of yourself banging on our front door daily to berate the contractors or builders (of this agreed work) is harassment.

Any further calls at our house after this Cease and Desist letter will result in our contacting police to give you a formal warning,

Sincerely,
London

Sounds great @Ikeptgoing! Should probably mention that they work in the legal world… Fun.

What can the police actually do if they persist? I’d prefer not to have anything that needs to be declared when selling or, heaven forbid, come up on DBS checks.

Jesus wept indeed. Is she at home all day and needs to get out a bit more?

@LondonNQT

Sounds great *@Ikeptgoing*! Should probably mention that they work in the legal world… Fun.

What can the police actually do if they persist? I’d prefer not to have anything that needs to be declared when selling or, heaven forbid, come up on DBS checks.

It won't come up in DBS check unless police are involved and an arrest as been made (for certain offences) or a conviction or caution has been issued.

I do think their latest is NDNs escalating things as it's ridiculous to say you greeting them with 'hello ..good morning' or whatever was "aggressively said", police would (quietly) chuckle at them for that if they escalated further. However if you haven't used solicitors to start a court case, or reported to council, it won't show up if you later decided to move.

Given they are legal field and likely to over react, as they seem to like the last word and have lost sense of what is reasonable, I would simply respond when they next come round and ask them to stop knocking and ensure that is captured on a video call with sound on your phone or Ring doorbell with sound . Then if they continue, as it is harassment, I would send that cease and desist letter but maybe lose the last paragraph (As they will already know that in this case).

Your neighbour - if the person knocking is a solicitor or barrister- has more to fear from being reported to police for alleged harassment, than you do, as their professional registration will be quite clear about standards of behaviour including outside of work.

If there was a substantiatable allegation of harassment, (& showing a cease and desist letter sent and evidence that they continued unreasonably- hence Ring doorbell cctv evidence would be useful to show daily banging on your door past the point you said stop doing this it is unwelcome ) , the police would initially talk to NDN to advise them to leave you alone & that further attempts at contact would be considered the (informal) warning as police record they have given said advice. If it continues then by 2 further incidences, the police can arrest for offence of harassment.

I think by showing you had taken steps to formally ask them to stop and advised them it is unwanted contact and a nuisance (which is why I say wait and do these things first before escalating) and it is unreasonable contact without good cause (hence letter and laying out what they are doing, daily in afternoon despite you saying no) then police are more likely to act.

It is difficult if you have reason to contact them or they you, as you cannot have no further contact but still be in contact or accepting contact for other reasons. It's very black and white. Which is why I would say letter should do the trick and is your slam dunk action.

Really though unwound stay away from them don't engage and only say please stop locking at our door it is unwelcome and we do not want you to, IF they continued to come to your door. Surely she will have stopped by now? Having had no success in her daily haranguing of builders!

Sorry I realise that wasn't clear

It won't come up in DBS check unless police are involved with you as perpetrator and an arrest of you as been made (for certain offences) or a conviction or caution has been issued to you

And we aren't talking about your behaviour here but your NDNs.

That's absolutely ridiculous

It’s so unreasonable I actually snorted

@LondonNQT

I’ve now been asked to not speak to them on the street (I thought good morning/afternoon etc was just common courtesy) as I did so aggressively and it’s causing upset. There have been tears in their house over it and it’s affecting the children.

Jesus wept.

They sound absolutely mad

Hm, I don’t think it’s definitely unreasonable. We’re childminders and our neighbours have just had pretty extensive work done. We polity asked that they try their best to avoid 12-2 each day as that’s when the children sleep… and the noise was bloody noisy! With the exception of a couple of times they were really great and tried their best to coincide quieter jobs with nap time, take their lunch break then etc.

[quote Ikeptgoing]@NigellaAwesome
I think agreeing to no loud work on the party wall during nap time is a fair compromise.

🤣🤣🤣 and yet it isn't reasonable at all! Setting concrete and plaster doesn't stop for 2 hour naps... neither will contractors stop and wait around for 2 hours mid working day. It is shockingly unreasonable and no building team (nor neighbour having work done disrupting their house) would agree to this.

So there's two people so far in the country - OPs NDN and Nigella - as a minority who would ask this!!

The knocking daily to interrupt builders and repeatedly ask them to stop during her child's nap time, is horrible behaviour. They've already said no and to leave them to get on with their work, OP has said no too.

Sounds like OPs builders have done NDN a favour by pointing out poor quality of work on their NDNs previous extension foundation (ie none for the last metre) which they have limited time to fix.

The rest of it is batshit. NDN cannot blame buildlers using scaffolding (which takes ages to put up) for potential break ins due to their (NDN) lack of security on their own bedroom windows- that is for NDN to put secure locks on- who doesn't have lockable windows these days? Does she not understand that burglars sometimes use ladders or can climb up on fences/brickwork or pipes without needing scaffolding!! Her house insurance would be invalid if they found out that their house is not secured. [/quote]
@Ikeptgoing there is no need to be so rude. I didn’t say that I would personally ask for this at all, perhaps you need to read what I said.

I said that agreeing to no loud work on the party wall during nap time seemed to be a fair compromise. It appears that the OP’s party wall surveyor also thought this as he agreed to it. The OP is doing a full refurb of the house, so there is potential that the trades could work elsewhere on site during that time. Plastering or cement work isn’t loud, unlike someone drilling or jack hammering on the party wall would be. Of course it isn’t always practicable, but this is the sort of gesture that in many cases shows willing and compromise.

The neighbour’s subsequent behaviour demonstrates that they are not interested in trying to maintain an amicable relationship. I’m not defending their behaviour towards the OP at all, but the OP can’t be faulted in agreeing to it initially to keep the peace.

There lies the crux of it I think @Februarymama - you ASKED and did so NICELY. Her initial email to us did indeed ask us to postpone the build by a few months but it said ‘and of course we will have to agree quiet working periods over nap time’. This was the same email where she said they were worried about our build polluting their childrens lungs.

In theory this should have been them at their nicest, as they wanted us to postpone by a few months. To be totally honest I didn’t, and still don’t, know how one responds to such a suggestion? Reassure her that the build won’t pollute the children's lungs? I started looking into buying her an air purifier before I caught myself.

How can good neighbourly relations possibly exist when you start things off like this? I suggested that it would be more appropriate that they contact our architect with queries like that going forward. There was then a comment on our planning application querying how the light to their property would be impacted. This part of the build will impact the light at the very end of their garden, if anything at all. It may just be unfortunate timing but coming so soon after their above email this came across as a petulant reaction to our failure to comply with their requests.