Neighbour access to our property

[Annette32123]

Hi all

Wonder if anyone has knowledge of what is reasonable/legal in this situation.

Difficult neighbours - more than ten years of general hostility and awkwardness, so we have no inclination to be helpful.

They need (and have the right) to access our property to reach their gutters. Turned up unannounced demanding access immediately on the day a couple of months back (demanding, not asking - rude!) so we refused - it was the middle of a working day and they disturbed us during WFH multiple times through the day despite us saying no the first time and making them aware that we were working. No discussion beyond that since.

Now they have informed us they want access, with seven days notice. Which is more reasonable.

However there are two issues:

1. To access the area needed, a large greenhouse would need to be moved
2. We work Mon -Fri and can’t take annual leave on a few days notice

So in regard to 1) above, would they need to arrange dismantling, moving, re-erecting at their cost? And should we ask for evidence of insurance from their workmen to cover any damage, before allowing access? Are we required to allow them to dismantle it at all?

And in regards to 2) above, can we reasonably ask either that the work is scheduled for a weekend or evening? If not, can we reasonably ask for a longer notice period to allow one of us to book time off work? Should we expect to be compensated for the time taken, as we would need to oversee the workmen throughout to ensure there is no damage.

The relationship is already appalling so preserving any semblance of cooperation isn’t relevant - they commenced hostilities within weeks of us moving in, so we don’t feel at all bad if we are seen as ‘difficult’ now that they need us to cooperate with them. Indeed it might make them reflect on their historic behaviour - though I doubt it!

Thank you!

I don't think they can demand a building is moved. They would need scaffolding to go around

Oh my god. You shouldn't have erected a greenhouse that obstructed their access if they legally have a right to access. They have a right to access their gutters. Let them access their gutters. They don't need your permission. They were being polite. You are the nightmare neighbours here.

Are you sure about number 1?

I agree. You sound like youre being awkward

Why do you need to supervise? Take pictures beforehand in case of damage. Are they using ladders?

I wouldn’t take annual leave for work on my own gutters never mind someone else’s. Why do you need to take annual leave? I’m not sure you should have built a greenhouse that prevents acces.

In more than a decade they have never needed access - greenhouse has been there for many years. The gutters were installed about 15 years ago so we had no expectation they would need replacing - they are on perfectly good condition. Looks like they are changing the colour rather than replacing due to damage or whatever. They have a general right of access to do any and all general repairs that are difficult from their side, not just the gutters - would be difficult to have a shed or greenhouse or anything normal without making it difficult for something or other they might need. But was emphasising that given how difficult they have always been - even though we had many ‘give them the benefit of the doubt’ occasions early on, we are trying to work out how much effort we should make now. If any.

Sorry to say, but I think @yicky is right - there probably shouldn’t be something, somewhere which blocks access.
Your greenhouse will end up in pieces if you let them move it - best see if you can do it yourself.
I don’t think any compo, as shared access but you can ask for more time? But it sounds like you’re delaying the inevitable

Ah it’s not shared access. There is just a clause on the title deeds to say we must allow them to access our property if they need to do so to do repairs to their property. But I don’t interpret that as any restriction on how we use our land. Again useful if others know the legal situation. But it’s not shared access like a shared driveway or anything like that - there is a 6’ fence between us but their house is so close to the fence they can’t lean a ladder easily up their side. They could probably do the work from their side if they tried hard; my main gripe was them sending their workman over unannounced without bothering to pop over first themselves or put a note through the door and expecting me to stop work to deal with them!

If the green house is older than the guttering then they can’t get access
Moving it is unreasonable, they will need a crane platform from their side

If your land is meant to allow access then you shouldn't have built anything on it. You'll have to take it down and move it.

And why are you being so difficult? What do you think they're going to do? You dont need to supervise. I dont even understand why you'd say no. Just let them get on with it.

The title deed does say they must minimise the risk of any damage and make good any damage done so I guess it was anticipated they may need to move stuff.

@BeforeGodAndAllTheFish

If your land is meant to allow access then you shouldn't have built anything on it. You'll have to take it down and move it.

And why are you being so difficult? What do you think they're going to do? You dont need to supervise. I dont even understand why you'd say no. Just let them get on with it.

Are you sure?

I could write an essay on why we are less inclined to be cooperative - but suffice to say they don’t believe rules apply to them so there is a history there of us trying to negotiate with them when they have done things that are very unreasonable and getting a brick wall response. Been fortunate never to have neighbours like this before; but giving them access won’t be an easy task if we need to move a greenhouse so wanting to know what is legally required!

I think you would have to be the ones to move your greenhouse - if they have a right of access you should not have obstructed it.
We had a right of access across our garden, going from our experience, I also think you are in the wrong for not allowing them access the same day - if they have a right of access they can use it any time (unless it is stated in your deeds that you can deny them until a time that suits you but I have never heard of this).

@MiniDaffodils
I may be describing the legal terms wrong. It’s not a right of access like a path or anything but have come across that before - that is different and I agree would be available at all times. The title deed specifically says they can access the property with at least 7 days notice at a mutually convenient time, to do essential repairs. But makes no mention of what happens if there are big plant pots or greenhouses where they will likely want to put their ladders! I’ve read up on what happens if people need access and there is nothing in the deeds - then it’s clear they would need to move things and I wouldn’t. Just not clear in my case where it is mentioned in the deeds.

Not sure if the same, but there was a right of access on one of our properties.

We were told that as long as you could get the equivalence of a wheelie bin through this area, then we had met our responsibilities. So I'd imagine similarly. You cannot be expected not to use your own land as you please let me in case your neighbours wish to change their guttering colours!
Arguably, you can give access and they use a cherry picker or similar based on their property and go up/across...

You weren't asked to be foreman to the work so just should have allowed access if they need it. You're working from home so is it a much more difficult issue than opening a gate for them? Why would you need to take annual leave for it? Even with meetings 9-5, you could request them to come a bit earlier etc

Maybe you could take a few panes of glass out of the greenhouse roof to get a ladder up? I wouldn't expect them to foot a bill to get access if you've put a greenhouse obstructing access?

It's hard to be objective if you've a bad history with them but if you are obstructive for the sake of it, it won't help. Good luck with it

I would suggest to ask this question on the forums on gardenlaw.co.uk. Many of the contributors have experience in the legal aspects of questions like this.

Maybe post this in Legal?

Thank you - very useful information - and good idea about just removing roof panes as hadn’t considered that - would be far less disruptive than dismantling it fully!

There was a question like this in the times but it's behind a paywall www.thetimes.co.uk/article/my-neighbours-extension-has-blocked-access-to-my-gutters-and-they-want-me-to-pay-p902cxdwm

Try posting the actual wording in the deeds.

I think some posters are getting confused with two different types of rights - the type that give access to a property (like our house, which is down a long private driveway which leads to four houses but is owned by only one of them - if anyone put a greenhouse in the middle of the drive everyone would be pretty pissed off) and rights to access a neighbouring property for occasional repairs. The actual wording would be helpful.

Going by your description would the planned works count as essential repairs in the first place?

There is the Access to Neighbouring Land Act 1992 that legally allows access for repairs and maintenance to existing structures and gutters would apply. A court order could be obtained to allow this.

The problem with your greenhouse is rather a grey area. You really may need to speak to a solicitor here as your neighbour does have rights whether you have a good or bad relationship with them.

In your situation I really would try and build bridges here and get things handled properly as you don’t want this escalating into a legal wrangle.