Neighbour access to our property

[Annette32123]

Hi all

Wonder if anyone has knowledge of what is reasonable/legal in this situation.

Difficult neighbours - more than ten years of general hostility and awkwardness, so we have no inclination to be helpful.

They need (and have the right) to access our property to reach their gutters. Turned up unannounced demanding access immediately on the day a couple of months back (demanding, not asking - rude!) so we refused - it was the middle of a working day and they disturbed us during WFH multiple times through the day despite us saying no the first time and making them aware that we were working. No discussion beyond that since.

Now they have informed us they want access, with seven days notice. Which is more reasonable.

However there are two issues:

1. To access the area needed, a large greenhouse would need to be moved
2. We work Mon -Fri and can’t take annual leave on a few days notice

So in regard to 1) above, would they need to arrange dismantling, moving, re-erecting at their cost? And should we ask for evidence of insurance from their workmen to cover any damage, before allowing access? Are we required to allow them to dismantle it at all?

And in regards to 2) above, can we reasonably ask either that the work is scheduled for a weekend or evening? If not, can we reasonably ask for a longer notice period to allow one of us to book time off work? Should we expect to be compensated for the time taken, as we would need to oversee the workmen throughout to ensure there is no damage.

The relationship is already appalling so preserving any semblance of cooperation isn’t relevant - they commenced hostilities within weeks of us moving in, so we don’t feel at all bad if we are seen as ‘difficult’ now that they need us to cooperate with them. Indeed it might make them reflect on their historic behaviour - though I doubt it!

Thank you!

I’m in your neighbours position. We have access to our neighbours garden to carry out repairs to our property. They’ve purposefully left a gap in that area for access (I didn’t ask, they just have). I imagine they’d much prefer to have some lovely big immovable pots (or a greenhouse) there but have kept it clear.

If the deeds existed before the greenhouse then I don’t think you should have put a greenhouse there unfortunately.

If you don’t want to be helpful then maybe seek legal advice.

@eurochick good point and it’s the latter - am in bed now but will do tomorrow - have posted in legal as others recommended so that might help there too.

@GrumpyPanda - I’m not convinced it’s essential repairs, no - the gutters aren’t broken or sagging or damaged and can easily be cleared of leaves (and have always been historically) from their side. No signs of water leaking when it rains. In perfect working order. So more likely it isn’t actually a need but rather a want. But no idea how far it would get me debating that point!

@SmolCat

I’m in your neighbours position. We have access to our neighbours garden to carry out repairs to our property. They’ve purposefully left a gap in that area for access (I didn’t ask, they just have). I imagine they’d much prefer to have some lovely big immovable pots (or a greenhouse) there but have kept it clear.

If the deeds existed before the greenhouse then I don’t think you should have put a greenhouse there unfortunately.

If you don’t want to be helpful then maybe seek legal advice.

We didn’t actually anticipate them needing access to this area for many years because it’s quite a new house and we wouldn’t have expected the gutters to be need replacing! Nothing else would need access from out side aside from the fence, which they installed with the fittings out side so they can’t replace without coming on our side. But we have done the same as your neighbour in terms of their fence - never grown anything near it, so it would be easy for them to replace when the time comes. That we did expect to be needed in the next ten years and despite not liking them, we resisted the temptation of hawthorn hedging!! The guttering request was a surprise to us.

• our not out

We didn’t actually anticipate them needing access to this area for many years because it’s quite a new house and we wouldn’t have expected the gutters to be need replacing!
I see where you’re coming from. Basically you gambled, on good odds, that they wouldn’t need access. But the fact is that they’re now requesting their legal access.

I can’t see how or why you feel they should pay for removal of something you’ve put in place that blocks their access (assuming the deeds existed before the greenhouse). But I could be wrong. As I said it may be best to get legal advice.

@SmolCat
Indeed - and taking the roof glass off may be less problematic so that was a good suggestion earlier in the thread. It is also debatable whether it’s essential works rather then cosmetic preference but I’m not sure I have the energy to argue that with them!

I have this in my title deeds that my neighbours have right of access if they need to do something to their garage that sits on our boundary. It simply means I allow them into my garden. However as its on the boundary I am allowed to do what I like with my land so if I want to put up a freestanding pergola right next to their garage which is on my land I can do it. If they need to repair something sure come into my garden and work around the pergola. Right of access doesn't mean you can't build or put anything on your land. They simply have to repair any damage caused if something happened.

In your case they will need to either use scaffolding or a cherry picker to get the work done, you just leave the gate open.

Also you are right that reasonable notice for access is required however there is no right that you have to be present when the work is done. That is your choice.

What Spectre 8 said. It's a standard clause I be think. We have the same. It doesn't mean we can't use our be land how we wish. I wouldn't be dismantling anything to accommodate them.

@Spectre8
That’s really helpful thank you - my understanding reading the title deeds is that it puts not obligation on me either to keep the area clear or move things to accommodate them because I reasoned that it would be stated if such an obligation existed. But good to know you have the same or similar clause and that is your interpretation too.

And I take your point that I need not be there. But I’ve had things pilfered in the past so am wary - have lots of nice quality garden equipment and while most wouldn’t help themselves I’d rather not chance it. There are also pots out there that cost upward of £300 each and so if one is chipped I would be less happy!

@clarrylove

What Spectre 8 said. It's a standard clause I be think. We have the same. It doesn't mean we can't use our be land how we wish. I wouldn't be dismantling anything to accommodate them.

Oh good, I feel much better. Thank you.

They have been a PITA to live next to so I’m happy to do what is legally required but no more. It takes a lot for people to offend me so my lack of helpfulness is for good reason! If it was the neighbours the other side I’d bend over backwards to help them, just because they are lovely and they would do the same in a heartbeat.

You took a gamble putting the green house there. If it clearly says in your deeds, I don't think there's much you can do.
Just seems to me you're being a little awkward because you don't get along.

Going by other posters saying you shouldnt of built anything is absolutely ridiculous. In my case the neighbours has access to fix their brick wall of their garage and the foundations meaning I would not be able to put down grass or patio paving in that space so a good part of my garden would basically be soil. No that is not the case, they would have to rip up my paving and put it back good if they needed to fix their garage foundations.

I understand why you want to be their OP, I would. I just wanted to point out you cannot ask for more time just because of that, you have to make it work within the reasonable timeframe they have given you for access.

My neighbour has to fix a broken fence post, they gave me zero notice and the tradeperson damaged my flowers. I was livid so I totally get why you want to be at home.

@Spectre8 and @clarrylove

Do you know if I’m obliged to allow them to move stuff, as long as they put it all back? Or can I say they must work around what is there?

@Namechangeroo1234

You took a gamble putting the green house there. If it clearly says in your deeds, I don't think there's much you can do. Just seems to me you're being a little awkward because you don't get along.

I’m definitely being awkward because we don’t get along - no question. I just want to know what I’m legally required to do - would go well beyond any legal requirement for other lovely neighbour. But that’s why it’s important to be nice to neighbours isn’t it, if you need them to co-operate? They weren’t….!!!

If they are as dodgy as you claim, you probably can’t sit outside watching everything all day. Maybe you should have a camera recording your back garden. That way any damage caused by their contractors or any missing pots or garden tools can be accounted for. You don’t have to notify them. Just put a tiny sign in a window at the back stating “cctv”.

@Spectre8

Going by other posters saying you shouldnt of built anything is absolutely ridiculous. In my case the neighbours has access to fix their brick wall of their garage and the foundations meaning I would not be able to put down grass or patio paving in that space so a good part of my garden would basically be soil. No that is not the case, they would have to rip up my paving and put it back good if they needed to fix their garage foundations.

I understand why you want to be their OP, I would. I just wanted to point out you cannot ask for more time just because of that, you have to make it work within the reasonable timeframe they have given you for access.

My neighbour has to fix a broken fence post, they gave me zero notice and the tradeperson damaged my flowers. I was livid so I totally get why you want to be at home.

Oooh don’t get me started with plant damage - caught them reaching over snapping the branches of my viburnum (not overhanging!) just because they don’t like seeing plants from their side……

Good point about the timing though and not being able to ask them to delay for that.

@Namechangeroo1234

You took a gamble putting the green house there. If it clearly says in your deeds, I don't think there's much you can do. Just seems to me you're being a little awkward because you don't get along.

Thats wrong advice.

Some title deeds specifiy right of access for maintenance and its written into the title deeds for ovious legal reasons. To make it clear that neighbours can access the land to maintain something. Access being onto the land.

If its not in the title deeds, people can refuse neighbours coming onto their land and then the neighbour has to ask the court to grant an access order to carry out ‘Basic Preservation Works’ under the Access to Neighbouring Land Act 1992.

Thats the law. The law does not say you cannot build a greenhouse where someone needs access to maintain something. It does say you cannot build a greenhouse over x height without planning permission.

Your land in your garden is yours and you can do what you like with it and ut a shed, greehouse, plants and flowers where you like within the parameters set around heights where applicable.

Right of access just give someone the right to come in your garden with reasonable notice given. And its a fair clause to have in title deeds so stop petty disputes.

My neighbour has an oil tank and a conservatory which would get in the way of my gable end repair. He would happily let me erect scaffolding on his land to complete the work, and I would need to make sure I didn’t damage his property.
Fortunately we replaced the wood with plastic years ago and it hasn’t needed doing since.
Your neighbour doesn’t get more right to use your land than you do.

@Justilou1

If they are as dodgy as you claim, you probably can’t sit outside watching everything all day. Maybe you should have a camera recording your back garden. That way any damage caused by their contractors or any missing pots or garden tools can be accounted for. You don’t have to notify them. Just put a tiny sign in a window at the back stating “cctv”.

Have thought about getting camera - it’s a bit of a faff but might be needed. And the tradesmen probably aren’t dodgy but I don’t want to risk it as I’m sure the neighbours would think I was lying if I said anything was damaged or taken - their kids kick footballs over and have broken greenhouse glass and pots - but despite us talking to them they have the ‘goal’ set up pointing to our garden and refuse to pay for any damages. They really are difficult.

I had this situation with my neighbour I consulted a solicitor who advised me that as their property was the party boundary wall of their house then they had the right to access for reasonable maintenance(this may well be written as a covenant in your deeds) however you can construct whatever you like on your property right up to the boundary as long as it’s not attached to the party boundary wall and if there is a requirement to demolish and reconstruct anything as part of their access then the responsibility lies with them, those saying you shouldn’t block access are wrong it’s your property so you can erect what you like they have a right to access but anything preventing this is their problem not yours and they’ll have to make good regardless of cost

@user1471528245
Thank you!

There is a 2’ gap their side between fence and house and a 1’ gap my side between fence and greenhouse. But can’t see how they can easily gain access where needed without a cherry picker or similar. Equally they could have ladders fixed to their wall to allow access (like this www.safelincs.co.uk/saffold-fold-out-fixed-fire-escape-ladder/?sku=SAF18&fGB=true&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIntvm65Gm9gIVzOh3Ch0EtgLgEAQYAyABEgIOiPD_BwE) - although I won’t be suggesting solutions to them!

An ex neighbour wanted access to reroof his barn. He told me I'd have to move my oil tank and shed, as it couldn't be scaffolded around. I very sweetly pointed out that if it is possible to put scaffolding around the conning tower of a nuclear submarine, whilst it is alongside in port, then scaffolding over an oil tank and shed is perfectly feasible, and his need to redo his roof without scaffolding wasn't my problem.

@thegcatsmother

An ex neighbour wanted access to reroof his barn. He told me I'd have to move my oil tank and shed, as it couldn't be scaffolded around. I very sweetly pointed out that if it is possible to put scaffolding around the conning tower of a nuclear submarine, whilst it is alongside in port, then scaffolding over an oil tank and shed is perfectly feasible, and his need to redo his roof without scaffolding wasn't my problem.

Ha! Sounds like your neighbour was trying to save some money. Cheeky F.

@Spectre8 He was indeed a CF. When I had refused he demanded Dh's email and phone number (dh was posted abroad). I declined. The neighbour had already pissed me off by walking into the rear patio with his builder without so much as a by your leave; and by putting ladders either side of the wall that separated our gardens and climbing over, rather than walking up the road. I moved the ladder and made noises about how it would look were I to report this to anyone, as the village knew my husband was in the RN overseas.