Emotional blackmail by estate agent

[Lombriz]

We are in the process of buying a house and the negotiations have been absolutely horrible. I would be super grateful to hear any advice about how to deal with the latest twist.

The survey found that there was asbestos in the property and we then also did an asbestos survey that confirmed this. We got a quote for removing the asbestos and estimated the costs of replacing the parts that would be removed. When we asked for a reduction, first the vendor, via EA, said they won't give any because the survey said that no remidial works were required (we shared the survey with them and they say they didn't know about asbestos). It's true but if we ever want to do any refurbishment which we were planning we would have to remove asbestos first.

Then they said that we were terrible buyers and they original offer was accepted "reluctantly" and was below their "target". Then there was a lot of emotional stuff about how they need the money to have the life they want etc.

In the moment it made me feel bad and I just went along with it thinking, well it's better to close this on good terms (it just sounded like they thought we were cheating them). But now that I have calmed down and I look at the actual costs we will have to incur I cannot help but feel like I've been forced to do something I didn't want to.

Obviously, a few days have passed now so I don't know if I can go back and call out the emotional blackmail and ask them for the original reduction we asked for.

Am I being unreasonable?

Sorry. Didnt see its only artex - i was thinking garage roof or water pipes.
No just skim over and make sure youre not in the rooms while any building work (extensions) being done.

The asbestos isn't a problem unless you want to do work on the house. You were asking the vendors to reduce the price to fund how you want to live in the house.

This, they are selling the house as it is and you are asking them to pay you for what you want to do with it.

I don’t think that gives the right to be rude, but I think that if the house doesn’t suit your needs you need to move on. They have said no to your request already.

I don't think you'd be unfair to ask for a reduction based on a clear future cost. It's not like you're holding them over a barrel just because you feel like paying less. Them being unrealistic about what they can get for their house is not your problem.

Agree with pps that asbestos is not normally a justification to drop the price
The seller was rude but from there perspective you were trying to gazunder which is such terrible thing to do
You have to decide what is the best course of action for you,leaving the emotions out of it

How would you feel if they put the house back on the market
Relieved
Or gutted

Are there other suitable properties at the same price

@Lombriz remember that this is a business transaction. Only pay what the property is worth to you. The age/health/wellbeing of the vendor isn't your concern.

They're not giving you any courtesy based on the fact you're a FTB, so I wouldn't return any sentiment to treat them differently because they're elderly.

I think you need to wise up. Bleating about negotiation not being fair is silly. EA will say anything to get a good price. I wouldn't embarrass myself by telling them off.

Equally if you feel that you could walk away then it would be possible to reopen the negotiation. Be prepared to lose the house. You might get a better price.

There’s different types of asbestos. My parents had it in the garage roof but when they recently replaced it the sheets were able to be removed in complete sections so didn’t break up and didn’t need highly specialised removal. You can ask for reductions but the age of a house, if that’s the only concern in the survey I wouldn’t expect them to agree. These threads are full of sellers with cheeky buyers trying it on after the survey.

To me it doesn't matter whether you are first time buyers or not an issue you have not faced before is important and a big concern.
We are buying an older property and quite a few things came up which are common to houses of this age. The seller disputes them and we are aware the surveyor is covering himself and informing us of everything. We negotiated a small discount and happy to now proceed.
The thing is if we don't buy someone else will and we love it enough to take on things we are now aware of.

Would you walk away without regret?

We had exactly the same in our house...
we offered a good price for the offer and found asbestos
We asked for a reduction as it was in 3 ceilings and 3 walls

Cost of works and replacing the plaster was roughly 6k

He have us 5k off

I thought that was reasonable...
but remember it is a business transaction and the estate agent needs to be a bit more mindful of this. I used to be one 😬
It's their job to smooth the path to a quick easy sale, we get a lot of emotional blackmail from both sides! But that's what makes a good estate agent. Not getting the vendors or buyers involved in petty squabbles

It's really hard not to get emotional about house buying. Logically it's a business transaction but we are human and we have emotions about our homes. I know I cried (in private) during negotiations when buying our current house last year. I thought the agent was horrible but I know he was doing his job and just trying to get the best for his client. I managed to keep a cool head when talking to him and we got a deal in the end. But I'd never let him know he upset me! Just think about how much you want the house and if you are prepared to walk away over this. You weren't wrong to try for a reduction but you've been told no. It doesn't really matter what reason. You will find houses come with endless issues and costs to you over the years. Stuff you haven't even thought about yet. A bit of artex would not worry me at all. My last property was full of the stuff that we had never touched and our buyer just shrugged and said they would skim it.

Estate agents will say whatever they need to say to get the sale to proceed, so that they can pocket their fee. Don't take it personally.

Yep really not an issue, rude comments aside. You don’t have to move them, they will sit there causing no harm unless you decide to do work. But that’s the same with taking out a bathroom etc. it’s not really enough of a reason to negotiate down. Any house you purchase will come with its issues - best have a pot ready for broken boiler, ceilings coming down (wishing 3 weeks of moving) etc etc.

If you like the house, ignore and carry on. If you don’t, move on to something else.

@CaperCaper

I'm a bit older and have bought and sold a few houses. You learn a bit more each time. I have had some very negative estate agent and vendor experiences- they are not on your side OP, they are looking to get the best deal they can and they don't care that you will be lumbered with costs of sorting out asbestos issues.

The only way forward here is to continue as if this is pure business. Take all emotion out of it. Let insults slide. Make decisions based on what is in your best interests. When they insult your offer or your actions remind them that it's a commercial transaction- they (the vendor) are free to reject you as a buyer, all their choice.

You have to take a view based on the market in your area, but I personally would go back to them to say that you have given it further consideration and your offer is now reduced to X to accommodate the additional costs flagged by the survey. TELL the estate agent to put it to the vendor don't let them try to sweet talk you. And if I didn't get a reduction I would walk. Your future self will thank you.

This^ - absolutely this. Your future life is your concern, theirs is theirs, not yours.

[quote Lombriz]@ChicCroissant it is the artex ceiling and I get your point. We're first time buyers and honestly it's been horrendous, just the emotions! Well,my fault for taking it personally I guess!

Thank you for the lovely message![/quote]
TBH, if it's just in the artex, I don't think you have much of a case for a reduction. Certainly not more than a modest amount at best. It's common, and not dangerous if left alone and kept painted. If you want a different (such as flatter) surface, it's usual just to plaster over it. It would only become an issue if you needed to take the ceiling down- do you plan to do this?

The reality is that the type of asbestos there does not require removal. It would be by choice if you wanted to do so. Therefore it is unreasonable to expect a reduction to fund your choice. It would be like saying we don't like the bathroom but want 10k off to replace it the way we want it.

They probably do think you are chancers asking for a further reduction for something that doesn't warrant it. If you push for it they may put the property back on the market so work out whether you want to risk losing the property of you do pursue this.

We are literally in your situation right now except not FTB and not asking for a reduction. We had already identified the textured Artex ceilings as needed to be skimmed over or replaced for purely cosmetic reasons. It might complicate / make a bit more costly the renovation work we are planning but that work is our choice, not our vendors. The ceilings are absolutely fine if in good condition and left alone. It looks like electricians can drill into them (e.g. to replace lighting) subject to taking appropriate precautions. We are not expecting a price reduction because of asbestos ceilings. Our sellers would tightly tell us to jog on.

@Kipperandarthur

Sorry but loads of houses have increased by way over £70k in a year in this crazy house market. You are being unrealistic.

The thing with asbestos is that if it’s not disturbed it’s often not a problem which is actually what your survey said?

But you want to alter and disturb the asbestos that then causes the problem.

It’s a tricky one. But in this hot heated market you may need to tread carefully otherwise they will just relist the house and go with a new buyer.

Of course they have to remove the asbestos are you stupid, in cannot just be left these days!

It absolutely can @halloweenie13. It's not flaking. It can just be skimmed over and painted. Asbestos is only dangerous if you start pulling it about.

Thousands of older houses have asbestos in them.

I wouldn't buy the house at all if there is asbestos. Or at least get clarification if is essential that it is removed.

We discovered asbestos and dropped the offer by the precise amount we'd need to buy the house. Emotionally blackmail them right back and say you are terrified at the prospect of bringing your DC into a house that has asbestos and either they remove it with a certified company prior to sale or you deduct the cost form the sale. Remind them the next buyers could have a similar discovery if they pull out of this sale.

@Viviennemary

I wouldn't buy the house at all if there is asbestos. Or at least get clarification if is essential that it is removed.

They have that.

In the OP, it said the survey said that no remidial works were required

There are a lot of people who don’t understand asbestos especially in artex ceilings. Halloweenie being one of them.

Best thing to do is speak to the surveyor who did the report and understand how this can be overcome if you want to aesthetically change the appearance of the ceilings that have artex or do more complex renovations.

As your surveyor pointed out at present it doesn’t need any remedial work.

To be honest it sounds like you're being unreasonable. Who cares if they think you're terrible buyers? It's a business transaction. I think my buyers were terrible buyers too!

And as for asking for a reduction because the building has asbestos in it... why? Surely you know that tons of non-new-builds have asbestos? My old house did. We bought it assuming it did (didn't even bother getting a survey - artex ceilings were a giveaway!). We didn't dream of asking for money off for that.

@hivemindneeded

"We discovered asbestos and dropped the offer by the precise amount we'd need to buy the house. Emotionally blackmail them right back and say you are terrified at the prospect of bringing your DC into a house that has asbestos and either they remove it with a certified company prior to sale or you deduct the cost form the sale. Remind them the next buyers could have a similar discovery if they pull out of this sale."

Seriously?! Wow. If my buyers had said that to me I'd have laughed... a lot.
I don't know how some people manage to go round grandparents' houses or into school or anywhere else really if they're 'terrified' of their children entering a building with asbestos!! I'm amazed at how many people don't seem to know anything about asbestos and its prevalence!!

@halloweenie13
"Of course they have to remove the asbestos are you stupid, in cannot just be left these days!"
What on earth are you talking about?!