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Original poster

Emotional blackmail by estate agent

80 replies

Lombriz · 28/01/2022 23:37

We are in the process of buying a house and the negotiations have been absolutely horrible. I would be super grateful to hear any advice about how to deal with the latest twist.

The survey found that there was asbestos in the property and we then also did an asbestos survey that confirmed this. We got a quote for removing the asbestos and estimated the costs of replacing the parts that would be removed. When we asked for a reduction, first the vendor, via EA, said they won't give any because the survey said that no remidial works were required (we shared the survey with them and they say they didn't know about asbestos). It's true but if we ever want to do any refurbishment which we were planning we would have to remove asbestos first.

Then they said that we were terrible buyers and they original offer was accepted "reluctantly" and was below their "target". Then there was a lot of emotional stuff about how they need the money to have the life they want etc.

In the moment it made me feel bad and I just went along with it thinking, well it's better to close this on good terms (it just sounded like they thought we were cheating them). But now that I have calmed down and I look at the actual costs we will have to incur I cannot help but feel like I've been forced to do something I didn't want to.

Obviously, a few days have passed now so I don't know if I can go back and call out the emotional blackmail and ask them for the original reduction we asked for.

Am I being unreasonable?

OP posts:

MrsBaublesDylan · 29/01/2022 00:15

@Clymene

The survey said there were no remedial works required *@CaperCaper*. So If the OP fancies doing stuff, she can but it's not something she can ask for a price reduction to do.

Well, she can, the the vendors are within their rights to tell her to piss off as they have. If imagine they EA is annoyed on their behalf as I'm sure the asbestos came up weeks ago and the OP has only just asked for a reduction in price now they're nearing exchange.

Obviously I may be a complete cynic.

I will reiterate though that house prices are continuing to rise and buyers are not in an enormously strong position at the moment. Nothing to stop anyone playing hardball though obviously

Our buyers did this to us a few weeks ago.

Had the survey report for two months, had the asbestos survey we paid for before we moved in, and yet chose to request a 25k reduction a week before exchange.

They were shocked when we said no and very quickly huffed off.

We had got another three offers a week later and our onward purchase very kindly agreed to wait for us.

Original poster

Lombriz · 29/01/2022 00:18

@MrsBaublesDylan woah, that is crazy. So they knew about asbestos since the beginning?

We had no idea and vendor says they didn't know. When we read about it, it seemed reasonable to ask for reduction as it is also legal requirement to disclose, ie if they go back to market they have to disclose or if we want to later sell it we will.

OP posts:

ChicCroissant · 29/01/2022 00:19

Is it asbestos in decor - like an artex ceiling - or asbestos in a boiler vent or an asbestos garage? If the survey doesn't say remedial work is necessary, I can see the vendor's point of view about it as the work is only necessary due to something you want to do and they won't want to take less money to do that.

You can pull out of the purchase if you wish, are you a first time buyer OP? Buying property is pretty stressful and I hope that you can either sort this one out or find another lovely home soon if you decide not to proceed with this one.

Kite22 · 29/01/2022 00:21

I agree with most.
You have to set aside the emotion.

The vendors are just as entitled to say they don't want to / can't afford to lower the price, as you are to ask them. It sounds like you have already negotiated down from what they were hoping for, and then had a survey that says there was no remedial work required. If you later choose to extend or whatever, that is a different decision, it isn't the fault of the vendors.

All house sales are decided by negotiating the price between buyers and sellers. You can go back later and ask for it to change, but generally that should only happen when things about the structure of the house were uncovered by the survey. You saying "it needs work" would presumably already have been factored into the agreed price.
If you are doing this very late, then I think YABU.

Original poster

Lombriz · 29/01/2022 00:21

@ChicCroissant it is the artex ceiling and I get your point. We're first time buyers and honestly it's been horrendous, just the emotions! Well,my fault for taking it personally I guess!

Thank you for the lovely message!

OP posts:

Clymene · 29/01/2022 00:24

[quote Lombriz]@Clymene we asked for reduction immediately after we learnt about asbestos. We told them we would want a reduction but took a few days to get quotes.

I don't feel market is that hot anymore. And definitely prices will not increase very much from here. But obviously that is not a reason to pull out. Just thinking that they should be in more of a rush than us particularly given they have an offer accepted.[/quote]
I apologise for unfairly maligning you. But I do think you're not in a very strong negotiating position.

If you disagree, go for it. I don't know where you are but in general, prices are still going up. And people whose sales fell through 6 months' ago are no longer in a position to buy a similar property. So probably worth bearing in mind.

Clymene · 29/01/2022 00:26

Artex ceiling? Nope, you're totally chancing your arm. That is entirely visible and the house will have been priced accordingly. And we could all tell you're first time buyers.

Kipperandarthur · 29/01/2022 00:28

Oh it’s the good old artex ceiling. Very common.

No I would not give a discount. As surveyor pointed out all fine if left. If you want to change then that’s your choice and cost. Bloody hate the stuff me. It was shoved up everywhere in the 70s.

Clymene · 29/01/2022 00:29

That said, the vendors and the estate agent would absolutely have known it was asbestos. You can plaster over the top of it with a sealant. Much cheaper than taking the blasted stuff out.

Kipperandarthur · 29/01/2022 00:31

Yes it’s often cheaper to just plaster over or lay a false ceiling.

Original poster

Lombriz · 29/01/2022 00:31

@Clymene haha, thanks!

So you reckon the vendor knew? I thought they legally had to disclose.

Yeah, when we first found out we were shocked, I had no idea it was common.

OP posts:

Clymene · 29/01/2022 00:34

[quote Lombriz]@Clymene haha, thanks!

So you reckon the vendor knew? I thought they legally had to disclose.

Yeah, when we first found out we were shocked, I had no idea it was common.[/quote]
Well I mean the vendor will have known they were artex. They may not have know that it used to be made of asbestos but I would have expected the estate agent to have mentioned it. It shouldn't have been a surprise.

The estate agent does sound shit. Are the vendors elderly?

Kipperandarthur · 29/01/2022 00:36

No vendor doesn’t necessarily know. Post 1985 artex ceilings mainly didn’t have asbestos though some did up until about 2000. So they may have been completely unaware.

LemonSwan · 29/01/2022 00:36

Ok its an artex ceiling. This is really no drama as if it says no remedial work then it means its in good condition (ie. not flaking apart all over the place). This means your likely to just need a seal & skim from someone who knows what they are doing. Skimming a home is pretty standard stuff that most people do anyway when redecorating an older house.

It will be more of a problem for you if you were planning to rewire and change all your lighting - but then you can put in a false ceiling overboard instead.

I wouldnt remove it.

Original poster

Lombriz · 29/01/2022 00:41

@Clymene, that's interesting. The vendors are elderly yes, also the reason why I didn't really want to push for the reduction.

Perhaps it is all the work of the agent.

OP posts:

Kite22 · 29/01/2022 00:48

That said, the vendors and the estate agent would absolutely have known it was asbestos

No they wouldn't.
I wouldn't know that artex could be asbestos. Why would you think these vendors would know ?
Or estate agents come to that?
Almost all the estate agents I have met in the last 12 months seemed to know very little..........

greenlynx · 29/01/2022 00:49

I really feel for you OP we’ve being there. Our building survey flagged up asbestos and the house was in need of redecoration, rewiring and new windows so for doing all these asbestos had to be removed. We walked away. I was absolutely devastated as it’s my dream house but I couldn’t risk my money.
It’s a popular view that asbestos is not a problem and can be covered but it’s not as simple as that. An old house have to be redecorated at some point and it means asbestos will be disturbed so should be removed. It’s quite expensive and there are limited amount of companies who are doing asbestos removal so you might have to wait. Of course, the seller will tell whatever suits him and it’s difficult to argue in current situation with lack of decent houses.

Clymene · 29/01/2022 00:50

[quote Lombriz]@Clymene, that's interesting. The vendors are elderly yes, also the reason why I didn't really want to push for the reduction.

Perhaps it is all the work of the agent.[/quote]
The agent will want their sale. Maybe they like the vendors. But the facts still stand. Artex ceilings were typically made of asbestos until fairly recently so even if the estate agent who showed you found was a bit dim, the one who valued it wasn't. And neither was the surveyor. So you are in effect asking for a reduction for something that you knew was there.

If you like the house, I'd just go back and say you've reconsidered and would like to proceed.

I very much admire how much you've taken all this in your stride hope it all works out

Clymene · 29/01/2022 00:54

@Kite22

That said, the vendors and the estate agent would absolutely have known it was asbestos

Because most 20th ventures Artex ceilings contain asbestos. While the vendors may not have realised, the estate agents should have done and should have told them.

It's really not a massive deal. As another poster has said, providing they're in good condition, they can be sealed and skimmed and it's no issue.

Asbestos is only an issue if it's disturbed.

greenlynx · 29/01/2022 00:54

Oh just saw that it’s Artex, the same was in our situation. It’s hard to remove and you can’t skim over forever, you need to have high enough ceiling for this.
I don’t think you will get a discount but the real reason is lack of houses not that artex is ok, it’s not.

Clymene · 29/01/2022 00:54

Century not ventures!

TheHoptimist · 29/01/2022 01:29

[quote Lombriz]@ChicCroissant it is the artex ceiling and I get your point. We're first time buyers and honestly it's been horrendous, just the emotions! Well,my fault for taking it personally I guess!

Thank you for the lovely message![/quote]
You are joking? Sorry but most people would have laughed you away.

Skim it over.

RobotValkyrie · 29/01/2022 01:47

If I were you I'd pull out, I'd never buy a house with asbestos in it (speaking from first hand experience here: actually retracted an offer on an asbestos-filled house, and bought an asbestos-free house instead)

This stuff is a time bomb, it's not worth the hassle. This old build probably has lots of other more hidden construction defects. You can surely find better somewhere else.

TheHoptimist · 29/01/2022 03:05

@RobotValkyrie

This stuff is a time bomb, it's not worth the hassle. This old build probably has lots of other more hidden construction defects. You can surely find better somewhere else.

Any house built before 1990 will probably have some-ours is Victorian and did- in artex added in later half of the century, ceiling tiles, floor tiles, cellar ceiling, old linoleum etc etc

Grimupnoorth · 29/01/2022 04:23

@Lombriz

It's actually a bit reassuring that some of you say it's normal to NOT get a reduction when you find asbestos. So perhaps they were not completely unreasonable...

Its normal to get a reduction. Also asbestos hangs around in the air after removal and you only need to breathe a tiny bit in for it to plaque in your lungs and increase your cancer risk by thousands. There needs to be sbsolutely no dust after removal. I wouldnt buy a house with known asbestos. Ive seen the results. Plus they sound like twats. Walk away.

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