Neighbours using our driveway as a thoroughfare

[Notathoroughfare]

Our neighbour’s house has a front entrance on one street and a rear entrance on our street, which means their drive is directly adjacent to ours and he has a gate at the top of his to access his garden. It’s not a shared driveway. For some reason, they never use their front door and always use the rear as an entrance/exit for them and any guests.

Because his car is massive, it takes up the whole width of his drive, which means anyone entering or leaving their gate has to walk on our driveway and it’s really starting to piss me off. They drag their bins down our drive every week, use our drive to get in and out of their car and if our car isn’t parked on our drive, they will literally just walk straight across.

We did previously ask them not to do this as they were having work done and their workmen kept using our drive to get in and out of NDN’s garden as well as leaving stuff on it and sitting on it to have their lunch. He apologised and it stopped, but increasingly, anyone who visits them will walk up our drive to get to theirs.

We can’t put a fence up because it would mean their driveway was unusable - there’s a wall on the other side of it and their drive is literally only wide enough for their car. This would also be a pretty nuclear option and we don’t want to fall out with them as if we need to do any work to the side of our house, we need to use his sideway.

I really just want to discourage them and their guests using our drive as an extension of theirs. It sounds petty but it’s several times a day and they’ve even been known to go up the middle of our drive and squeeze between the front of our car and our window to get to the gate if our bins are in the way.

There’s no room for planters down the edge of the drive so the only thing I could really think of was creating a small bin store at the top of our drive which is right by their gate. We’re on civil terms with them but not particularly friendly and I’d rather not risk a row because I’m fairly sure he would think we were being unreasonable!

If anyone has any suggestions for deterrents I’d be interested to hear them. We can’t put gates or fences on our drive as there isn’t space. Land mines also not an option.

@Notathoroughfare

Diagram.

There is no space whatsoever between the drives. Both drives are gravel/paving.They can’t get their car through their gate because it’s too big (minibus type of vehicle) and their house is a terrace directly on the pavement at the front with double yellows on the road so they can’t park there.

Based on this and what you said about coming back on Saturday and finding their stuff all over your drive because they were having a clear out, I'd be putting a fence up between the drives and a gate at the end of mine and if it's struggle for them with their big car they'll have to remove their wall for access. They think your drive is their right of way and the only way you can stop that is to block it off to them and their visitors.

Sorry, a bit late coming back to this as I’ve been out.

When we came back on Saturday, I was quite annoyed and I definitely did not apologise to him. I suggested he put his stuff behind his car rather than on our drive.

The wall isn’t his I don’t think. There’s a tiny bit of green space on the other side where the trees are in my diagram and that belongs to the council. So he can’t knock down the wall to create extra parking. Really, the only thing he can do is get a smaller car so he can park it on the bit behind the gate but I doubt he will do that.

I don’t know why they have a minivan. They have no disabilities, children or disabled people living with them.

@EvaLution This is why I’m reluctant to put up a fence along the whole drive. If we take that step, he could easily refuse to allow access to maintain the side of our house. Additionally, I just don’t want to needlessly fall out with people because I’m not like that.

I measured the gap between our house and his gate earlier and I think what we can do is put up a small fence panel which we can say is to hide our bins, but the positioning will create an obstruction to anyone trying to walk up there as well as a kind of visual deterrent.

@tillytoodles1

Our ex-neighbour was petty like that. The drive was narrow and we had to step out of the passenger side onto his drive, then walk around the car to get to our front door. He put up a fence and we had to extend our drive sideways and take up most if our front garden.

😳

You for real? 🙈

Liking the idea of a bin screen. Go for it.

If they were to access their house via the front door, where would they have to walk?

@EmmaH2022

If they were to access their house via the front door, where would they have to walk?

I’m not sure I understand what you’re asking.

The front of their house is on a busy road with double yellows. They have nowhere else to park apart from their drive or our street which has a permit only restriction so they’d have to pay. If they parked on the street, they’d probably walk around the front.

For the people suggesting they’re trying to establish a ROW across our drive, this just is not the case and it would never be allowed in law.

OP I mean to avoid crossing your driveway, what would be their route from having parked their car, to walk to the front door instead?

Only solution is an electric fence

If they are brave enough to keep using your property they will have to suffer for the privilege

@EmmaH2022

OP I mean to avoid crossing your driveway, what would be their route from having parked their car, to walk to the front door instead?

Well, it would be up their own driveway, obviously. Because it’s not my responsibility to arrange how they get from their car to their house.

I’m not really sure where you’re trying to go with this or that you’ve read my posts properly. I can live with them needing to use our drive to get in and out of their car. What is pissing me off is that they’ve clearly directed friends, family and visitors to use the rear entrance instead of the front.

I forgot to mention this before because I was fixating on the driveway issue, but a few times we’ve had taxis and other randoms knock at our door because NDN has clearly given them our address (x number, x street) as opposed to his own address (y number, y street). I assume he’s done it because of the parking issue but it’s annoying. On one occasion, someone rang our bell asking for . I told her she had the wrong place but she persisted until I had to be fairly rude and say ‘look, it’s not this house’. It was only after I shut the door that I had a lightbulb moment and realised it was NDN so I messaged them. Again, they did apologise but they’d clearly used our address because it was easier.

Before the more excitable MNers tell me he’s going to use our address for fraud and dodgy parcels, this has never happened.

OP "I’m not really sure where you’re trying to go with this or that you’ve read my posts properly"

I have and I think they are CFers for all the behaviour. I was just asking because in their position, I'd not use someone else's driveway, nor get anyone else to use it. If that means walking around a different way, I'd do that.

but I guess we don't understand each other so I'll bow out.

Why don't you just be firm with him? Say that them getting in/out their car is fine, but that the friends/deliveries/whatever is getting to be too much and has to stop or else a boundary will be erected. Seems simple enough.

@EmmaH2022

OP "I’m not really sure where you’re trying to go with this or that you’ve read my posts properly"

I have and I think they are CFers for all the behaviour. I was just asking because in their position, I'd not use someone else's driveway, nor get anyone else to use it. If that means walking around a different way, I'd do that.

but I guess we don't understand each other so I'll bow out.

You just asked what their route would be if it wasn’t across our driveway. It wasn’t clear to me that you were suggesting they were CFs and other posters have already asked me how I expect them to get into their house without treading on our drive so I assumed that was your angle too. Sorry, but I’m not a mind reader.

That's even more cheeky. So because his address presumably brings people to his front door, he's giving them 'next door to OP's address' but you have to deal with the people for whom that's got lost in translation and they turn up at your house instead. That would annoy me even more. You aren't his PA and nor are you his access provider.

Check your deeds. Some builds don't allow vans parked on drives.. Maybe explain why it doesn't fit... Imagine trying to sell when your ndn has claimed a share in your drive.

The other option if you don't actually want to do anything OP (because there isn't an easy way to stop them, I think we've established that) is to send them a letter, recorded post, to confirm that you don't give them permission to use your drive.

This will prevent them gaining a prescriptive right of way. Despite lots of people knowing about the risk it's quite uncommon, and there are conditions to be met. To stop those conditions being met you can either give them permission (setting out your terms and that it is a licence), or tell them they can't do it. Either way they are then on notice that they are not using it "as of right".

I suspect given the circumstances you've described they wouldn't have a hope if any claim but you haven't said how long it's been going on, and belt and braces might make you feel more comfortable. The conditions for making a claim are quite onerous and have been tightened up.

Have a conversation. Tell them that you are getting annoyed with people knocking of your door and traipsing up your driveway.
Explain the easy solution would be to put up a fence, but you don’t want to do this as it would make it difficult for him to get in and out of his car.
Does he have any suggestions or should you put up the fence?
See what he suggests

Are you in England OP? If so, under the Access to Land Act, you are allowed reasonable access to your neighbours property in order to maintain your own property.

With your latest posts, your neighbour obviously couldn't care less how much nuisance he causes you. That fence would be going up ASAP if it were me.

I measured the gap between our house and his gate earlier and I think what we can do is put up a small fence panel which we can say is to hide our bins, but the positioning will create an obstruction to anyone trying to walk up there as well as a kind of visual deterrent.

That sounds like the best solution if you want to avoid a nuclear fallout. If you block that bit off (with a locked gate and a notice that says private property, no thoroughfare) their guests will have to double back around the front. They'll soon get tired of doing that.

But don't use your bins as an excuse – once it's up, tell them it's because you are fed up of people cutting across the front of your house.

What @EvaLution said

Wrt maintenance of your house, in England you do have a legal right to access for maintenance, although that precludes any improvements. Tbh though they sound like the sort of CF who would complain about it regardless so you’ve got nothing to lose

Yes you have a legal right to access your property for maintenance (not improvements) but they can make this difficult for you, and even take it to court. So I would get that work done first and then put up any fence.

I would put up a fence panel from the corner of your house, along about a third of your drive.

I would tell the neighbours it is a bin screen but also say it is for privacy because you have had numerous visitors squeezing past your window and you don’t like it.

The worst it will mean for them is that they have to let passengers out before fully parking.

The bin screen sounds like it’s worth a try

We need a diagram

@breakdown19 there is a diagram. Sweet Jesus but people are too obsessed with this whole fucking diagram trope on here to even read the thread.