Has anyone ever done a massive renovation?

[katesbushh]

Hi All.

Just wanted to get opinions really
I have seen a house that I adore. Well I can see the potential anyway...

It is a 17th century listed building and looking at the particulars- is going to take a lot of work.
Structural as some of the ceilings appear they're being held up by sheets
Floorboards exposed upstairs.
Cellar looks like it needs work.
Chimney looks crooked.

Then electrics, central heating , windows.
Basically a rebuild without rebuilding I would say.
There is planning permission already granted to modernise without taking down the existing shell.

The house has huge potential and will almost certainly make money in the long term as it is a fantastic area.
I'm just wondering how I will cope with the stress really. We would have to sell ours to do this and that house isn't livable.
A caravan on the drive for a decent amount of time I would say.

If you have done something similar how did you stay sane and did you actually stay within budget?

I'm actually starting to wonder if it would be less stressful and cheaper to buy land and start from scratch.
We have a structural engineer and builder coming out with us for the second viewing.

Don’t do it. I am midway through and almost broken now. It is absolutely the worst time you could think of to start a big building project

We are near the start of a project like this- just about to put our planning application in.

Have you had a survey? I would look for a specialist surveyor who knows about old houses, explain what you intend and ask them to survey with that in mind. They may well recommend further specialists to look as well.

Consider how long you're going to be happy in a caravan- as well as going over budget it's very common to take much longer than you anticipate, especially given how busy builders are at present. You are unlikely to be even able to start work for a very long time. Are you sure it's not livable while you're having plans drawn up etc?

@cloudtree oh dear this is what I was worried about.
Sorry you're gelling so fed up.

Yes I have BUT

It wasn’t listed
We lived with family (very lucky) not in a caravan or on site
No structural issues
We could afford all the overruns
It was pre Brexit and Covid

With listed status, possible structural issues and having to live in a caravan, I’d run a mile tbh

Just bear in mind that some costs are double and some TRIPLE what they were a year ago! If it is the dream of your life, you have oodles of time, knowledge and cash, and are happy to be in the caravan for up to a couple of years, go for it.

@katesbushh
No survey yet.
Been for a first viewing and have a second one the weekend.
Haven't offered.
I've been watching it for a while and they've reduced the price twice ehyxh concerns me.

Not sure about living in it immediately.
The structure doesn't look sound downstairs especially.
I would be concerned the ceiling would cave in.
There is no kitchen either.
Or electric...

We watched the money pit with Tom Hanks last night and I said to dh that will be us.
Thing is it is fantastic
So, so much potential but I'm worried with all the stress I would begin to hate it.

@JumperandJacket even

Our situation is a bit different as it's a second home, meaning that we don't need to live there or factor in rent so delays are less of an issue. You living in a caravan is the bit that really worries me- just not sure that is going to be practical for a project that could take years.

Other than that, I think it's a question of finding out a lot more, getting a very serious idea of the costs and making your offer accordingly. There will be stresses but they are dealable with if you have sufficient budget, but probably not if you are in a caravan.

Do you have a link?

The thing is, it’s almost better to be floorless and wireless and kitchen less, as then at least you are seeing exactly what you have to do. But it does sound like a several hundred thousand job. How big is it?

The big things to look out for are stability in the main structure, state of the roof MATERIALS as that is what English heritage will keep you to and damp, dry rot or hopefully lack thereof.

The materials thing is so important as if the roof must be made of virgin fairy dust licked on by unicorns, then that is what the listed building inspectors will keep you to!

There are some amazing renovations online to follow though.

We live in a grade 2 listed building. There are lots of regulations regarding what you can do. Not a problem when the work is finished but we had to work with English Heritage as well as the local planners so I would phone the planning department (now,most won't speak to you without a paid for session, I think?) when you have some idea of what you want to do.

I’ve done it but not in a listed property. We were able to live in one room/ bathroom.
I wouldn’t do it again. We didn’t have children then. Just watch any house renovation or build programme, there are always unforeseen expenses, they always go over budget.

Unless you have the patience of a saint, the budget of a small country, some previous experience so you know when you are being spun a yarn and magic powers that keep builders working on yours and not pissing off for weeks, I would run for the hills.

Everyone here is more my way of thinking.

DH seems very excited by it all.
I think it is going to be a massive headache and while it has a lot of potential I'm not convinced enough potential to take the stress.

@JumperandJacket

Here it is

I found this property on the Rightmove Android app and wanted you to see it: www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/115542647

The materials thing is so important as if the roof must be made of virgin fairy dust licked on by unicorns, then that is what the listed building inspectors will keep you to!

@minipie

Yes I have BUT

It wasn’t listed
We lived with family (very lucky) not in a caravan or on site
No structural issues
We could afford all the overruns
It was pre Brexit and Covid

With listed status, possible structural issues and having to live in a caravan, I’d run a mile tbh

Same.

Wouldn't touch a big project with a barge pole at the moment

[quote katesbushh]Everyone here is more my way of thinking.

DH seems very excited by it all.
I think it is going to be a massive headache and while it has a lot of potential I'm not convinced enough potential to take the stress.

@JumperandJacket

Here it is

I found this property on the Rightmove Android app and wanted you to see it: www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/115542647[/quote]
If that's the property it looks like the previous vendors were similarly optimistic and have run out of money and now need to make a fire sale

Avoid

Fuck that.

Falling down, listed building in the middle of nowhere with a 'modern method of auction' meaning it's going to cost far more than the stated asking price.

Unless you and your husband want to end up on Grand Designs as 'that' couple, I'd forget it.

This project is for a developer capable of putting in a lot of cash.

@Gingernaut haha I actually said to my husband this isn't grand designs you know...

We have done this with a non listed building. My advice would be have deep pockets and be prepared for anything - given that the property you are looking at is listed I would have even more reservations. Ours is still ongoing 4 years in - nearly 5. The main works are done but we had truly awful trades so we have had to have a lot of work re done and still keep finding issues. It's not for the faint hearted. I still love the house we fell in love with at the start but DH doesn't feel the same the sheer scale of the works coupled with the awful trades have etched a deep scar in this place for him.

Oh I’m sorry but I’m also here to say don’t do it. Eight years on and we still haven’t finished ours…. We made it comfortably liveable in the first two years but are still not finished. Ours is old (1840) but not listed so at least we didn’t have that hurdle. Every time we scratch the surface we uncover something else to fix. I’ve had one major mental health wobble and now have a chronic condition which probably has its roots in stress. DH would tell you it’s a roaring success however🙄

Yes. I live in a 2* listed. It was a complete and utter nightmare.
I would never do it again.
We enlisyed a specialist architect very familiar with our local authority and their quirks but the local council wete unrelenting. Thry didnt even want electricity or washing facilities installed in some bathrooms. They were throughy unreasonable about heating installation (insisting we should basically freeze) i wanted nothing modern, all very sensitive and in keeping.English heritage even intervened but they still wouldnt budge. On the eve of a judicial review the conceded.
The actual practicalities and compications were far worse than architects, surveyors and all builders ever anticpated, you never really can guess what lies beneneath and when you find it you need to find an acceptable way to fix it which often doesnt vome easily or cheaply. A specialist building unfortunately does often seem to add pound signs in the eyes of builders in my experience, but that voild just be where i live. Are probably makes a huge difference. Thie listed building property owners vlub might be a good place to contact, they might be able to advise you how easy or hard work will be in your particular local authority. They are a good resorce.
Costs will definitely be higher than refurbing a normal house.

I haven't but FIL has.

'Listed' is a bit like 'wedding' -- the inclusion of that one word seems to precipitate the inflation of costs by up to 200%. (In some cases justified.) And of course home renovation costs are increasing rapidly at the moment.

FIL did an 18th century barn. It took years and cost almost three times as much as they'd budgeted. (Something along the lines of 300k when they'd planned for 110k.) Every time one of the contractors sneezed, they uncovered another forty grand's worth of work that needed doing. The bloody thing almost fell down twice, but wasn't allowed to because it was listed. FIL and his wife almost got divorced over it. They now live in an admittedly bland modern box but are much happier and have their weekends back after almost a decade.

I think the big thing here is that you don't really want to do it. (Or you're certainly having big doubts.) A big renovation is one of those 'enthusiastic consent' issues within a marriage or relationship, for me. Both parties have to be 100% up for it, otherwise you really shouldn't.

If that's the property it looks like the previous vendors were similarly optimistic and have run out of money and now need to make a fire sale

Agree. That’s an abandoned half started building project.

Honestly the right person could make it lovely, and perhaps make money on it, but they would need to have deep pockets, experience and somewhere else to live.