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Property/DIY

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Has anyone ever done a massive renovation?

66 replies

katesbushh · 16/11/2021 15:23

Hi All.

Just wanted to get opinions really
I have seen a house that I adore. Well I can see the potential anyway...

It is a 17th century listed building and looking at the particulars- is going to take a lot of work.
Structural as some of the ceilings appear they're being held up by sheets Confused
Floorboards exposed upstairs.
Cellar looks like it needs work.
Chimney looks crooked.

Then electrics, central heating , windows.
Basically a rebuild without rebuilding I would say.
There is planning permission already granted to modernise without taking down the existing shell.

The house has huge potential and will almost certainly make money in the long term as it is a fantastic area.
I'm just wondering how I will cope with the stress really. We would have to sell ours to do this and that house isn't livable.
A caravan on the drive for a decent amount of time I would say.

If you have done something similar how did you stay sane and did you actually stay within budget?

I'm actually starting to wonder if it would be less stressful and cheaper to buy land and start from scratch.
We have a structural engineer and builder coming out with us for the second viewing.

OP posts:
Starseeking · 16/11/2021 17:21

Have you got a spare £400k on top of the £400k asking to do it up, and will it be worth £900k plus when finished??? You'll need the £100k profit to soften the blow for how long this project will take to complete and the pain you will go through getting there. I'd bypass it completely, unless you like stress in your life.

tenredthings · 16/11/2021 17:26

We have rebuilt two ruins. I would not do it unless you or you DP is a builder. it will cost too much if you have to pay someone else. Materials are hard to get at the moment with covid and Brexit and prices have massively gone up.

GlamGiraffe · 16/11/2021 17:32

How much tealistically would you think of dpenfing on this?
You may well need new bricks and tiles made yo order if rrlaims dant be found. We had to have thid done. Eyewatering. A new roof or part new roof?
What of the toof timbers need replacing?
The plumbiers and celecticians usually cant work conventionally as they arent allowed to notch joists like normal. No normal plastering only lime plaster and mortar which it seems not everyobe is capable of. Woodeorm? Dry or wet rot? Damp treatment and dampcourses? All to be vonsidered before you start.
Building matetials are now very expensive, consider that too. Based on experience you need to allot hundreds of thousands of pounds!

throwa · 16/11/2021 17:37

Yes I have. We did double height double width extension across the back, single side extension, moved the stairs, replastered what was still standing (not much) and rewired. Then we got onto interiors. We lived in a static caravan for 18m with two children and a cat.

Don't do it.

We were supposed to be in for 6m, turned into 18m. Ours was an old house (1870s) although thank god it wasn't listed - on day 1 we found something we weren't expecting, cue another £20k which immediately had to be spent, this wasn't an option.

We had issues with sub contractors, builders, supply chain - you name it, and this was before Brexit and the price increase of building materials.

You need to be on site every single day to keep an eye on the builders if you don't have an architect to do that for you, and we know that they cut corners and skipped things, even with that. Can one of you work from home / have enough of a grasp of building works etc to be able to discuss things with builders, especially with an older house where are you trying to match up old bits with new bits?

We came out the other end, still married, kids still alive, which was perhaps the greatest achievement. The stress was incomprehensible, the only reason we didn't divorce was because that would have been more stress and neither of us would have been able to cope with that. (We are ok now, strange how removal of that amount of stress makes you happier).

We wouldn't do it again if you paid us. Well... we would... but we know what we're doing now and what to do and what not to do (and not that we would as we have no money left now!). We'd also pick the house with a lot more cynicism, and wouldn't go near anything which was listed.

You need to get structural engineers out to see if the bones of it are still good and you need to actually listen to what they say. What are your local planners like with listed buildings? Some are ok, some are tyrannical in what you can or can't do to the property.

And finally how much money have you got? How much more could you get if you needed to if the wind blew wrong and the house fell down? Do you have a plan B if the money runs out? What's your contingency? Can you do any of it yourself? There's a reason that the price had been reduced twice with no one taking it up; the costs would be far too high for anyone commercial to make a profit, leaving it for the Grand Designs owner types, which tbh says it all really.

Based on what we spent on ours, and don't forget you will need high quality interiors to match the outside /the value of the house, you're going to need at least £500k plus contingency, on top of the £400k to buy it, which if it isn't habitable (ie no kitchen etc), you'll have to get a self build more expensive mortgage to buy. Will it be worth over £1m once complete?

Don't do it.

Anothernick · 16/11/2021 17:42

Have to agree with everyone else. This looks like a project for an experienced developer with deep pockets who will turn it into a high end country pad commanding a top price. This is not one for amateurs, however enthusiastic. Will take years and cost £000s.

PoshWatchShitShoes · 16/11/2021 17:51

We're a month away from finishing a major refurbishment. It's running a month overdue and with a massive overspend.

We planned to spend £250k, then increased budget to £300k due to rising costs. I think we'll be at £375k by the time the interior is finished.

There are so many limitations to renovating and stuff that's uncovered like joists running the "wrong way" or electrics that you thought were fine, but need a complete overhaul or leaks that you didn't know existed and need remedying.

Our house isn't listed. That's a complication I wouldn't want.

cloudtree · 16/11/2021 18:06

Ours is also running at £100k over budget. For no real reason other than the fact that it is the worst time ever to be doing this. I wasn’t joking when I said this has almost broken me. It’s complete and utter hell.

WakeUpLockie · 16/11/2021 18:08

This would be dreamy in an ideal world but in reality I would not do it. We're waiting to start our double garage conversion (kitchen/diner/utility, 2 bedrooms, ensuite, moving stairs and all the boiler and utilities etc) and we had one estimate £80k, then a few months later from the same builder it was £210k, just because of the crazy prices at the mo.
My grandmother made her money in property and built her own house at age 75 and that has loads of benefits too as you can get exactly what you want. Probably same price or less, and more straightforward!

WakeUpLockie · 16/11/2021 18:09

(My point was, our house is a basic 3 bed semi at the mo and even that is a £200k job Grin)

tpmumtobe · 16/11/2021 18:12

We've done it before (not listed) and would do it again, but not now given the way the world is, no way. Everyone we speak to says building costs are up to 40% higher than pre-Covid and planning is facing a major backlog. You'll be in that caravan for years...

cloudtree · 16/11/2021 18:16

Our planning application for a tiny minor detail (very straightforward) went in at the beginning of June and didn’t get the decision back until last week.

PragmaticWench · 16/11/2021 18:17

Would you need a mortgage? No kitchen may make it much harder to get a mortgage (i.e. more expensive).

Arren12 · 16/11/2021 18:24

We are a year into renovating and no where near the level you are talking about and my house was livable when we moved in. Its hard going. We work so struggling to find time as we are trying to do alot ourselves due to cost. Its a nightmare with kids as we want to do stuff at weekends but the kids need us. I just want to come home to a cozy done house some days. Its almost Xmas and we are about to knock some walls down and I'm not looking forward to that with Xmas celebrations in a building site.

I'd not do what your suggesting. I bet it would be lovely once done but too stressful to do.

HalloweenScrooge · 16/11/2021 18:28

I have done two full renovations now and I wouldn’t go near that one. It looks very much like someone has started work on it and realised they can’t afford to finish. It is clearly mid-rewire (you can see the chases cut into the brick). It is also probably not mortgageable (no working kitchen). So unless you have the best part of a million lying around this is probably not the house for you!

BlackAlys · 16/11/2021 19:19

@cloudtree

Don’t do it. I am midway through and almost broken now. It is absolutely the worst time you could think of to start a big building project
Agreed.

The cost has escalated beyond our wildest nightmare and we are stony broke and I too deep to pull out.

The prices post Brexit and Pandemic are utterly insane.

Retrievemysanity · 16/11/2021 20:56

Another one saying don’t do it. We’ve done a renovation (not listed) which involved kitchen extension, rewiring, new heating system, everywhere replastered, ceilings skimmed, bathrooms redone etc. It has been an absolute nightmare and yours sounds worse! It’s really not worth the hassle unless you can afford to rent somewhere nice in the meantime and I will never do this again. Tbf, I did say to DH I wanted to pull out of the sale and he was insistent it would be fine! Do you have kids? If you do then absolutely no way!

Luckystar1 · 16/11/2021 21:16

We are about 3/4s of the way (maybe slightly more…) through a massive renovation. We have lived on site throughout. We had another baby during the build, it has been going on for over 18 months.

We spent 9 months living in 1 room (5 people).

The worst parts for me are the complete lack of privacy. There is ALWAYS someone here. Going to the toilet or the shower are potentially exposing!

The baby has never been put down for a nap as it’s just too noisy.

For context, I was homeschooling at one stage last year while they were kangoing above my head. Today and yesterday, they have been kangoing pebble dash off the walls. The house was vibrating, concrete was raining down and the noise was AWFUL!

We can’t spent any time in the house during the day as it’s too noisy and with so many trades there, there is often difficulty parking (don’t underestimate how annoying this is…!).

The children can’t play outside, as there are so many men, scaffolding, vehicles etc etc.

We are CONSTANTLY stressed. We barely talk about anything but the house. The impact on us all is completely overwhelming.

The costs are bonkers. Getting materials or fittings is taking a LONG time.

There are soooooooo many decisions to make. I honestly feel like this has been valuable time with my children that I will never get back.

Everyone says it will be worth it, and I have no doubt it will be, but we have been through the ringer!

thelegohooverer · 16/11/2021 21:20

I’ve still got ptsd from extending our kitchen.

I think you need to have a rock solid relationship before touching something like this and double the budget you think it will cost.

SirVixofVixHall · 16/11/2021 21:20

My friend is doing just this with a 500 year old house. It is costing much, much more than they predicted, things have happened or been exposed that were not known at the start. At times it has been really tough. She loves the house so it really is a labour of love but it is a huge undertaking.

Handsnotwands · 16/11/2021 21:23

Have you read the listed building consent that has already been granted?

clatterclatter · 16/11/2021 21:53

Looks like a nightmare OP, sorry. Someone’s started it and is shaking it off by putting it back into auction.

It is likely to cost you double whatever you’ve budgeted, I bet you could easily spend the asking price over again and still have more to do. Worst possible time to take on a project like this. Cost of materials aside, many trades are booked solid for work for another year at least. Even many a professional developer would be challenged by a house like this at the moment.

maofteens · 16/11/2021 22:40

The modern method of auction sounds like an expensive way to go. The listing means sn extra later of red tape and adds to the cost, the house isn't that great to begin with, it's a money pit.

incognitodorrito · 16/11/2021 23:10

I’ve just completed mine. I planned and budgeted and it still cost 50 % more than I’d anticipated, but I’m relieved it’s over. Renovation projects can quickly turn into money pits, especially at the moment.

Justcannotbearsed · 17/11/2021 06:56

We planned and budgeted and started pre covid, still £100k over on an original 120k budget. Not listed biut old house, lath and plaster, everything just crumbled as soon as it was touched. Refurbing badly done plumbing, electrics, unexpected underpinning, thousands on a really quite small garden, putting in insulation….

And ours had a family living in it before we bought it so wasn’t that bad.

We did make some expensive decisions consciously but a lot of it is just what needed done. Neither of us is at all DIY except gardening.

We can afford it (though there is other stuff we could have spent the money on!). But we won’t get the money back when we sell.

We lived in it while it was being done, they’ve got another month to go and while they are nice lads, good builders, ok to deal with, I can’t wait to see the back of them, early starts, dust, noise mess. The dust!

We’ve often said we should have built fron scratch instead.

Flyingsouthagain · 17/11/2021 08:30

I have.

A house I fell in love with as I walked through the door. Grade II, historically very important, and on the surface in ‘OK’ condition.

It consumed 10 years of my life and cost three times as much as budgeted. Not my amateur budget, but the outcome of an extensive historical building survey, a structural engineer report and quotes from my builder specialising in work on such buildings.

None could have predicted the water tanks falling through the ceiling one night and flooding the house, the endless delays caused by the Listing Officer arguing about boiler sightings, windows etc, the Bats delaying roof work, the hidden rot in floors, roof trusses, windows etc. etc.

The outcome was a beautiful house, that I was no longer in love with and a large financial loss.

Having just taken a look at yours my immediate reaction was ‘no way would I touch that’. I would be very surprised if your budget comes in below £300k and it will take you years !!