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Original poster

Crossover period on rentals?

47 replies

Lovequinngoldberg · 19/10/2021 10:44

We've been accepted to rent a new place (great!) however the downside is the LL wants to start the new tenancy within 14 days.

We need to give 7 weeks notice on current place (ie 1 full month from the day of our tenancy which is the 8th of the month).

DP offered a week's crossover (ie new tenancy to start in 6 weeks) but no more because, as he rightly says it would cost us ££££s to run 2 houses for a month.

We've asked the current LL if they will release us early so we can start the new lease sooner (probably not) - nothing back from the LL of new property and the agents are quite negative about our chances.

What do you think? Is it likely to be agreed or are we going to lose out? Might they come back with a counter proposal or something?

OP posts:
Original poster
Lovequinngoldberg · 19/10/2021 11:15

Anyone?

Feeling a bit despondent if I'm honest - we've been looking for a place for ages and this one was perfect :(

OP posts:
Thissucksmonkeynuts · 19/10/2021 11:26

Are you in England? Your notice is one month from the date you give, you don't need to calculate it from the rent date. Its not in the landlord or letting agents favor foe this to be the case, but itthe law.
Unfortunately with high demand rentals, a landlord doesn't need to leave a home empty for very long, I wouldn't need to have a place vacant for more than a few days here.

Thissucksmonkeynuts · 19/10/2021 11:30

Ah, I may have got this slightly wrong, if you latest copy of you contract has a notice clause, you may indeed be stuck.england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/ending_a_periodic_tenancy/how_much_notice

Original poster
Lovequinngoldberg · 19/10/2021 11:34

yes the contract specifies 1 month from date rent is due. So we can't end tenancy any sooner than 8 December, but new LL wants us to start on 1 November.

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TheDuchessOfBeddington · 19/10/2021 11:52

You could try calling new landlord’s bluff, but to be honest if they had a queue of suitable tenants for the place they could easily pass you over.

Original poster
Lovequinngoldberg · 19/10/2021 12:00

That's my concern, DP thinks they are just bluffing/ being tight, or that the agents should negotiate as they act for both landlords to resolve it, and in his view he's being more than reasonable offering a week overlap but I feel like we're just going to get screwed over.

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Original poster
Lovequinngoldberg · 19/10/2021 12:02

I don't know whether to keep looking at other houses or wait and see what happens on this one, just feel in limbo!

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TheTrinity · 19/10/2021 12:06

It depends on what the LL is like and how many other prospective tenants are waiting for the property since it is high demand generally and maybe very high depending on the area you're in. The LL can also consider the individual merits of the prospective tenants. It also depends on how much you want the property. If the LL will not budge on the move in date then you really have to keep looking for alternatives. I guess for 5 weeks you could minimise the running cost of your old place if not eliminate paying 2 lots of rent :-(

TheTrinity · 19/10/2021 12:07

@Lovequinngoldberg

I don't know whether to keep looking at other houses or wait and see what happens on this one, just feel in limbo!
Definitely keep looking
Original poster
Lovequinngoldberg · 19/10/2021 12:13

DP is not negotiable on allowing any more than a 1 week crossover, he can be quite dogmatic about certain things and this is one of them.

I do really want the house but he won't change his mind, he might agree 2 weeks at a push but I'm not even sure of that. His view is if current LL let us out early, and new LL waited slightly longer, and we paid a week crossover, that is 'fair' on everyone.

I just don't think they will see it like that. Best get back on Rightmove.

OP posts:
Lindy2 · 19/10/2021 12:21

I'm a landlord. It would very much depend on the actual situation for me to delay a rental.

It costs the landlord to have a property empty. Not only loss of rent but the landlord has additional expenses like the council tax to pay. My insurance doesn't like it to be empty for more than 30 days either.

If the property was all ready to rent and I had other suitable tenants who wanted it, I would say no to the delay.

If there was some work that needed doing on the rental and the gap in tenancy gave the opportunity to get the work done then I might say yes.

All you can do is ask. 7 weeks is a long time to wait though. I think my limit would be 1 - 2 weeks really.

Original poster
Lovequinngoldberg · 19/10/2021 12:26

Unless we could get our existing LL to agree, the earliest we could agree would be the 1st Dec (as our existing tenancy doesn't end to 8 December). New landlord wants it to start by 1st Nov.

We could start on 8th Nov if current LL would release us by 15 Nov, but I don't think that will be agreed by current LL.

OP posts:
mumwon · 19/10/2021 12:31

There is a decrease in the number of homes coming up for rent - so the quality & area & type are more limited than they have been
The other point re landlord is that it is against his interest to delay - for instance:he may well have had a rent gap because of cleaning, redecorating or waiting for old tenant to remove their stuff (up to month after leaving in some cases sadly) or bailiff & eviction costs. he will have to pay out for the costs of a new tenant (hundreds of pounds). Every week he leaves it empty costs him
I would have a quick look on rightmove & see if there is anything else but be aware other landlords will view things the same way & you cannot guarantee the place you want will be available for the time period that suits you
Its not a tenants market at the moment
I have noted that in some areas there is nothing or very little to rent

Original poster
Lovequinngoldberg · 19/10/2021 12:42

The current tenants are still in the house, we think they're moving on 30th. So basically LL wants us in 2 days later.

I don't know what to do even if we keep looking because unless we're really lucky and get accepted for somewhere on the 7th of a month, we're always going to have to give more than a month's notice. Unless LL are looking for someone to move in more than a month ahead which doesn't seem to be the case.

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TheTrinity · 19/10/2021 13:06

@Lovequinngoldberg

The current tenants are still in the house, we think they're moving on 30th. So basically LL wants us in 2 days later.

I don't know what to do even if we keep looking because unless we're really lucky and get accepted for somewhere on the 7th of a month, we're always going to have to give more than a month's notice. Unless LL are looking for someone to move in more than a month ahead which doesn't seem to be the case.

I think expecting a 2 day turn around with new tenants is a little bit over optimistic. On the negative side, how certain is it that the current tenants will leave on 30th and if they did, what would the condition of the house be in? There would be ideally cleaning and at least some maintenance to do surely?
Original poster
Lovequinngoldberg · 19/10/2021 13:14

this is what I'd thought, that surely they'd want a week between as minimum?

We might be wrong and tenants might be going this weekend but as of last week when we viewed it didn't look like they'd started packing, and they have a lot of stuff. Plus they said something about going at the end of the month.

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WombatChocolate · 19/10/2021 13:19

The position of the other LL is not the concern of either LL. They are only interested in their own position and protecting their income….not the others, and not costs you might incur from the other.

So your DP saying he won’t consider more than 1 week cross-over is meaningless to both of them. If you are bound by contract to pay rent to the existing LL, you’ll have to pay it. If the new LL is only willing to take you from a certain start date, it is a take-it or leave-it situation….it is irrelevant to them if you’ve got 2 weeks or 10 weeks still to go on existing property. You can take it or walk away.

One thing I would consider is whether this will be a good new LL…not because of their rigidity about dates, but because they expect such a short turnaround between tenants. 2 days isn’t long enough to be sure tenants have gone and to do any work which needs doing. You could be faced with a property which isn’t up to scratch, and once you move in, it’s hard to get sorted out. When you looked at property what was it like? Has the LL mentioned anything like redecorating before you move in? Some maintenance work is normal between let’s and I’d worry about someone who isn’t expecting to do any at all.

It is hard to get old and new tenancies to exactly tally. It’s an added cost of renting that often you’re paying double rent and bills for a couple of weeks….not an insubstantial cost, but hard to avoid.

simitra · 19/10/2021 13:24

Move out when you need to and let the old LL whistle for their money.

WombatChocolate · 19/10/2021 13:26

And you’re right…your DH is wrong in looking for a solution which is ‘fair’ on everyone. In his mind, both LLs should expect a bit of a compromise which results in them getting less money, so you too can avoid spending so much money. But this isn’t how it works….it’s a business and they are aiming to maximise their profits and it is your choice as to whether you sign the agreements or not…but once you do, you are bound by them. There is zero reason why your current LL should let you off a week early and lose money, so you can save it. You signed that contract and are bound to the terms of it.

ivykaty44 · 19/10/2021 13:27

Just check out with council tax whether you'll have to pay

my council make you pay regardless - so in the situation you're in, id be paying two lots of council tax on two properties for the cross over period.

I would insist that my dp moved into the other property and I stayed in the previous rental until the end of the tenancy as then we would get 25% off each ctax

Renting you'll always going to have a cross over of some time frame, unless you move into an airbnb and look for a while so your ready to move - then you'd just have a storage fee for your belongings and the airbnb charge

daisyphase · 19/10/2021 13:31

I think the best card up your sleeve is that the old landlord cant' really want to get a vacant property on 8th Dec. That's too close to Christmas to be sure of getting a new tenant. Much better on 8th Nov, I'd think. You may need to negotiate around that benefit to them. But you are right with your previous post update. You are going to get this overlap scenario what ever you do, and you can't risk giving your notice until you've found somewhere new. Your husband is going to have to recognise this at some point.

WombatChocolate · 19/10/2021 13:31

Smitra, that’s not helpful.
The Op will be paying rent in advance anyway. They are contracted to pay it and to give notice as the terms they agreed to.

Yes, it’s annoying to have to pay 2 lots, but the existing LL isn’t at fault….they have provided the property on the basis of the terms signed. There is zero reason why they should be forfeiting a week of rent, just because it suits the Op and they would rather spend their money elsewhere.

The property is through an agent. There will be a deposit held with a scheme. The Op could lose all or part of her deposit if she follows your advice. It is poorly thought through, even if a knee jerk reaction makes many feel like doing what you say.

The thing is, you have to be totally clear what you’re signing and committing to when taking in a tenancy. The excitement of a new property can take over and people do t always read the small print and think about ending the tenancy and what will be involved in terms of timeframes and costs….but they should. It is a key part of it.

Original poster
Lovequinngoldberg · 19/10/2021 13:43

The existing tenancy is actually just in DPs name not in mine. He's rented places for years and has never had more than a week crossover hence being so adamant he won't pay this. He has a real bee in his bonnet about it and I know I won't be able to change his mind, he refuses to be ripped off and wants the agents to sort it out.

His current landlords are pretty good, when he moved in they had redecorated completely after the other tenants moved out the month before, they own some other houses in the same street and we know they do the same there leaving them empty for 4-6 weeks to get the work done. So getting it back on 8 Dec would probably be fine for them as they will do all the redecorating ready for new tenants in Jan.

Don't know anything about new LL but the fact they've not come back about the date at all doesn't look good.

OP posts:
WombatChocolate · 19/10/2021 13:51

Seeing it as being ‘ripped off’ is the problem. No-one is ripping him off. It’s just 2 different business people offering 2 entirely separate rental services.

As said before, the issue here is less having to pay 2 rents….that’s pretty much unavoidable….the real issue is a new LL who isn’t prepared to leave long enough between tenancies to do the maintenance work the property will need.

I have zero objection to that LL wanting tenants in as soon as the property is ready..it’s tough luck if that timeframe doesn’t work well for you, especially if there are others who will take the property from that day. I do have an objection to someone wanting one group out and another in within 48 hours….what level of decorating or work can be achieved? What if the tenants don’t actually go……you could be left with nowhere to live.

These are the red flags about this new property to me…not that you’ll have a crossover rent period. I’d think carefully about if this LL will be a good one and not be carried away with having liked the property.

Fujimora · 19/10/2021 13:57

he refuses to be ripped off

He is not being ripped off though. He has a contract with landlord A. He is obliged to fulfill the terms of that contract.

He wants to enter into a new contract with landlord B. He can choose whether or not to do that.

There may be wriggle room on the move in date but that will depend on the demand for the new property, and how desirable you are as tenants.
No harm in asking though and the agent should be happy to do that for you.

I guess the risk you run is that you give notice on the existing property and the new landlord finds an equally acceptable tenant happy to move in sooner than you could.