Crossover period on rentals?

[Lovequinngoldberg]

We've been accepted to rent a new place (great!) however the downside is the LL wants to start the new tenancy within 14 days.

We need to give 7 weeks notice on current place (ie 1 full month from the day of our tenancy which is the 8th of the month).

DP offered a week's crossover (ie new tenancy to start in 6 weeks) but no more because, as he rightly says it would cost us ££££s to run 2 houses for a month.

We've asked the current LL if they will release us early so we can start the new lease sooner (probably not) - nothing back from the LL of new property and the agents are quite negative about our chances.

What do you think? Is it likely to be agreed or are we going to lose out? Might they come back with a counter proposal or something?

@Lovequinngoldberg

The existing tenancy is actually just in DPs name not in mine. He's rented places for years and has never had more than a week crossover hence being so adamant he won't pay this. He has a real bee in his bonnet about it and I know I won't be able to change his mind, he refuses to be ripped off and wants the agents to sort it out.

His current landlords are pretty good, when he moved in they had redecorated completely after the other tenants moved out the month before, they own some other houses in the same street and we know they do the same there leaving them empty for 4-6 weeks to get the work done. So getting it back on 8 Dec would probably be fine for them as they will do all the redecorating ready for new tenants in Jan.

Don't know anything about new LL but the fact they've not come back about the date at all doesn't look good.

Even if your DP is an experienced renter, things have changed a lot in recent years. Many LLs have sold up and many new legislation, rules, tax and economic factors means it's simply not as viable a business option as before resulting a shortage of properties currently. Also I'm afraid it is not the agents responsibility to sort out anything other than to get their fees paid asap. If they are good agents they are not going to risk upsetting their own client because of the prospect of repeat business in future. They are going to get their fees whether it's from you or another tenant.

OK, LL here.

As others have said, the problem isn't with either of the LLs, it's with your DH who needs to get the bee out of his bonnet and think more constructively.

Can you negotiate with the existing LL?

• point out that 8th December is V close to Christmas?
• Offer to move out before the end of your tenancy but give them the chance to come in a do repairs and decoration?
• Offer to pay 1/2 rent for two weeks, while giving them access for the above? (Same as one week's rent in your DH's view?)
• promise to be 'extremely helpful' with viewing for future tenants

For a landlord, the opportunity to access an empty property to repair/ repaint etc while also getting some income is very attractive.

On the council tax front, you can usually claim an exemption for an empty property which means you won't end up paying for two HOWEVER be warned that a previous tenant or owner can claim the empty property exemption before you as it is linked to the house and not the person!

Are there questions you can ask/ things you can request which will delay the moving in date for the new property?

• Does it have an up to date Gas Safety Check?
• An ECIR?
• An up to date EPC?

If you can keep it 'ticking over' for a bit longer it may help to bridge the gap?

It feels like you're stuck here. Relying on your DP changing his mind, or the LLs compromising. Can you afford to cover both rents for that period? Seems nuts to lose a great home due to DP's stubbornness.

Thanks, yes we may have to go back to sq 1 and start again. There are 2 other houses we like that came up last week, we're still waiting to hear when we can view those.

The condition of this house was ok from what we could see (tenant had a LOT of furniture in there so couldn't see a lot of the walls or floor) but the woodwork all looked scuffed and chipped, DP has queried whether they were repainting or not when he asked for the start date to be delayed but I suspect that may not have been planned given the turnaround time.

We had this years ago and so I helped things along and found someone who wanted our rental and basically gave them a readymade tennant

All contact with current LL is via the same agents, so DP has asked the agents to ask the LLs if they will agree shorter notice, we can be out very quickly so if they wanted us out by 8 Nov we could do that.

We don't have any details to contact either LL directly so it's all through the agents.

DP hasn't given notice yet until there's any confirmation over the date, as if he gives it now and new LL refuses to budge on start date/ finds someone else who can start on that date, we'd be homeless.

I've not seen copies of any certs, but according to the agents blurb they will be shown to us when we sign the contract. If we get that far!

What if you went ahead and got referenced checked but then said you'd need to delay the start date after that?
Reference checks are expensive and time-consuming and they'd probably prefer to stick with you at that point rather than start pursuing another tenant.

We got stuck on this. Despite the reason for us moving was the LL selling up issued a section 21 he absolutely refused to budge on the 1 month notice of rental period rather than an actual month when we managed to secure somewhere before our time ran out.

Because the rental market is appalling and we were lucky to secure the property we're now in we accepted that a crossover was inevitable and ended up with 3 weeks paying for two properties.

To minimise your outgoings, completely empty the old property ASAP and speak to your council about a discount for empty property (explaining why). Some councils offer up to 50% off for empty property that they don't think is wasted housing stock.

You can also get massively reduced rates from your water company if the property has no furniture aka not lived in, again call them and explain and they'll only bill you for the minimum amount possible.

Turn off the gas and electricity at the mains so that means you're only paying the rent and minimal mandatory costs for the old property.

Your husband really needs to get his head around the fact that Landlords can now cherry pick tenants rather than risking property voids. If the property is in budget, in the area you want and you've been accepted I'd honestly suck it up and accept a crossover if negotiating doesn't work. Some PP have mentioned excellent ideas on how to nudge the date for new property forward slightly.

Best of luck!

That's already a fail if you're in England. Agents should give you or show you copies of all the certs mentioned above when you viewed, it's a legal requirement, even if they have included them in the online listing.

It's the rent he absolutely won't pay, council tax and bills are pretty low but the extra £800 rent is what he objects to.

I think the referencing or at least all credit checks has already been done, we had to sign about 10 different forms when we applied giving permission for all that. Plus we might lose the holding fee albeit I've not paid that yet.

Are you in England? 'Holding Fee'?? I thought all those sort of fees had been abolished!

@Jng1

Are you in England? 'Holding Fee'?? I thought all those sort of fees had been abolished!

Application fees have been abolished, but a holding fee equal to 1 week rent is permissible to secure a property whilst you formally apply for it. As long as you're honest about your wages/circumstances prior to applying if your application is declined you get the money back.

So the agents have come back and said that the new LL will agree a week, so 8th instead of 1st. which still only leaves them 9 days to do any works.

I've persuaded DP that we have to pay some of it (and current LL has said will take a week less so that's only 3 weeks we're paying for overlap) and he now agrees.

However taking on board the points you've made I'm going to go back and say we'll agree 8th provided it's been fully redecorated first? (and a couple of minor repairs DP noticed have been resolved) Does that sound reasonable?

I should add we're now thinking if we can't get LL agreement to do repairs/ redecorate we might walk away anyway.

fully redecorated - what does that mean? all woodwork glossed and all walls repapered? painted? every room?

im not sure how reasonable that sounds - tbh its a landlords market and you sound like trouble, id give you a miss as a landlord

The woodwork is chipped and scuffed so really needs another coat or 2, especially in the high traffic areas.

No wallpaper, it's all painted but again needs a freshen up. The current tenants have clearly been there a few years, redecorating between tenants isn't unreasonable I don't think.

I think you are pushing your luck tbh. They've agreed to a week

Personally I think repainting and fixing any woodwork scuffs between tenants is perfectly reasonable, and should be done. However I think in your case you risk them pulling out, and it really depends how much you want/need this house

I think PP have given a couple of good suggestions on this thread. I think approaching your existing landlord with a half rent for the final 2 weeks so they can do repairs etc sounds a good idea and will help keep the costs down, whilst also being attractive to the landlord.

Not sure if you will get repainting in this market. We also pay £800 pm and when we viewed we hinted, ‘needs a lick of paint?’ To which he replied, sure thing, but please keep to natural colours

I think you've been more than fortunate here. Neither LL needed to budge and both have. This is their financial loss that they didn't need to take, for your gain. It shows it's always worth asking.

It now gives the new LL 9 days to do any work. That sounds more sensible. I agree that scuffs etc should be dealt with before new tenants move in. Often, a whole property isn't redecorated but perhaps a couple of rooms.....but depends how long it's been since last tenant and the state.

I'd be careful with your tone of communication and if communication is going through the agent, stress to them the kid of tone you'd like. I wouldn't be really demanding and aggressive about these decorating points. Show gratitude about the flexibility over move in date and politely mention that you hope this will also give the LL time to address the decorating issues which need tackling before you move in. Request to know before signing the contract what decorating will be carried out. You can mention any other work that needs doing too.

Sounds like you need a careful think about what you really want. A couple of hours ago this was your perfect house. Both LLs have been willing to accommodate your requests....but now you're wavering. Just bear in mind that when you find somewhere else there's likely to be an overlap again. Your current LL might not be willing to be flexible again and you can always expect some kind of overlap. Most LLs of your new property will want a bit of time to do works, but not loads and loads of time - a couple of weeks might be usual, but behind that, they really are losing money, so given the new LL is willing to let the property be empty for 9 days and that is long enough for a quick paint job, you might not find better.

If you're still interested, make sure that is obvious and get on and do the paperwork to secure it, after quickly agreeing about decorating. Otherwise, you will risk losing it to other people.

It does really need a redecorate. Clearly there wouldn't have been time to do it in 48 hours which makes me think the LL may have been planning either to do nothing, or just a quick touch up. As DP pointed out we're hoping to be there for 2 years or so and what looks less than perfect now is going to look even worse then.

Although it is a lovely house, I know what I really liked about it was the agents photos which were taken a couple of years ago pre current tenants (and when it was all bright White and gleaming).

Plus I don't want to get saddled with a landlord who may be cheap (the agents said LL does all repairs/decorating himself), and having thought about how that might affect us once we live there, I'm more on the fence about it.

I mentioned to the agent that what I loved about the house was how it looks in the photos and that it really does look tired/in need of a refresh now especially as we hope to be there for s few years. So hopefully that will give some context to the LL.

Agent was a bit vague and tried to say the LL would 'have a look' once the tenants moved out and see if anything needed doing (common sense surely would say after 2-3 years its going to need something doing) but that just sounded to me like a way for me to lose the holding deposit - if LL says on 1 Nov that he thinks its all fine as is!

We do have another couple of possible houses, we're going to phone re those tomorrow and try and get viewings lined up and applications in asap, so that we have a back up if this one falls through (the other places both have different plusses and minuses to this one).

Okay.
It’s a tricky balance isn’t it. Here you’ve managed to deduce the rent overlap to 3 weeks - that’s pretty good and shows flexibility and willingness to lose money on the sides of both LLs.
Quite what a LL will do to a property in advance is something for negotiation and you have to judge if you can push for more or not. And if you’re willing to lose the property or not over it.

Will you kick yourself if these other places will actually involve a longer rent overlap? Don’t assume current LL will agree to a different or another early get-out. There are only so many times you can ask for this.

Why don’t you return to the agent again. Say you’re not happy to wait until Nov to hear about decorating and then have prospect it’s not agreed. Say you’ve got other properties you’ll be looking at if they can’t give a concrete answer about decorating before you sign anything. This puts the ball in their Court. But only do this if you’re prepared to walk away - the LL could simply say they will go with another prospective tenant (if there actually is one).

You have a bird-in-the-hand here….there could be ‘two in a bush’ in terms of other properties. You have to decide if to risk it.
You loved this property yesterday. Are you getting a bit greedy which could be risky? Only you can judge that.