Can anyone help me regarding cladding? Any recourse?

[TheViewFromTheCheapSeats]

My relative has had a flat purchase moving reaaaalllly slowly.

3 story block. Surveys done, solicitors paid etc- paid out about 2k so far. Building friend drove past and rung him to ask about the cladding as if it’s flammable (it’s about a third covered). It’s taken three months for the solicitor to get back on this. It’s ready to exchange and has been for the entire three months of waiting for an answer to this final question.

He’s now been told that the residents back in October made a plan to test if it’s flammable, which will cost about 1.5k per flat to test alone. This is to get a certificate they need for sale. The vendor put the flat in the market three weeks after this.

Worst case scenario it flammable I guess and it’s then a crazy bill for the leaseholders. The only sensible option seems to be to pull out.

It feels fraudulent that the estate agent and vendor haven’t disclosed this before. He stands to lose 2k he’s spent on surveys and fees, when he’d not have made the offer with the knowledge. Also the solicitors from neither side have picked up in it, he only asked because a friend who is a builder queried it. All the survey does is simply mention there is cladding, without any comment. My relative just had no awareness of the implications of cladding, they are a youngish first time buyer. The vendor though obviously knew as they were involved in the meeting of leaseholds before they put the flat on the market.

Is there a hope of trying to claim back the 2k on the basis of non-disclosure? The vendor has clearly put the flat on the market after the meeting regarding the cladding. It’s too low to access government funding. In the past half a year or so since they accepted the offer the awareness of problems with cladding has certainly made the need. My uneducated guess is it’s flammable as it looks like the cladding in a fire last year in the news.

Buyer beware. He saw the flat had cladding, surely it should have been something he thought of?

He’s young, the offer was before it really hit any news about non-high rise or other types of cladding. No knowledge really of buying.
The survey to be fair hasn’t suggested anything around it, neither have the estate agents or solicitors so I think it’s fair he wouldn’t. Two thirds, and his particular flat is unclad and it’s not visually that striking. Until his builder friend gave a heads up no one else mentioned it.

The seller on the other hand has clearly gone to market because of the cladding issue, weeks later.
Right now it’s too low for a statutory certificate, but there’s a huge risk they know about that that may change.

I'm confused by this bit

"He’s now been told that the residents back in October made a plan to test if it’s flammable, which will cost about 1.5k per flat to test alone. This is to get a certificate they need for sale. The vendor put the flat in the market three weeks after this."

So the seller knows he needs a certificate for the sale? Has the seller paid the £1.5k for the test? If not, it's not ready for exchange is it?

I think I see what you’re getting at, but we all risk losing what we spend on fees and surveys prior to exchange, that’s just the English system, caveat emptor. I don’t think you can claim non-disclosure as they are disclosing it now, as part of the pre-exchange enquiries which is normal. I’m surprised a surveyor didn’t pick up on this being something to look into though, what level of survey was it?

There’s nothing on the property information forms that mentions cladding specifically.

When did his solicitors get the management company’s information pack? It should have been in there somewhere- like in items of expenditure over £250 due or in the fire risk assessment.

It's not too low for an EWS certificate, there's no minimum height. The test is whether the building is covered by a substantial amount of cladding. You can't tell if cladding is combustible by looking at it, it is the make up of the material that makes it a potential deterrent or not.

I can't see what more information the seller should have provided that was not immediately obvious to a reasonable buyer. I appreciate your relative is young, but that doesn't mean that the seller or conveyancer has to provide additional information.

Does he need a mortgage?

Also it would not be the residents that arranged the EWS, that would be the management company on behalf of the freeholder. Do the residents have the right to manage, have they formed their own management company?

@eternalopt from what I understand mortgage providers are asking for the certificate even if below statutory height. Some leaseholders couldn’t renew/ sell so the certificate is being organised. The seller can technically sell it legally as it not statutory at the moment, but a combination of worrying it may become statutory and mortgage provider issues is the reason it’s being done.

@Orf1abc I am surprised the conveyor gives pretty minute advice such as checking a damp patch or crack, it’s very detailed, or mentions the roof material being potentially likely to degrade as a doe pipe is too narrow but doesn’t mention the cladding. It’s very likely to be combustible as it’s timber.

Yes, the residents are the management company

He needs a mortgage, unlike others it seems his haven’t picked up the cladding mention

Can he not sue the survey company?

What kind of survey did he have, and what exactly did the surveyor say about the cladding? It's not expected that surveyors have cladding expertise, so they'd be making an observation as opposed to offering advice.

The surveyor commented on it,up to purchaser to satisfy himself as to the position
Zero chance of claiming anything back from Seller

Sadly I doubt he will get anything back to cover his expenses. The cladding issue has been all over the media since Grenfell. If I was the buyer would pull out.

@Orf1abc this survey:

‘HOMEBUYER'S REPORT
This report provides more extensive information than the condition report. It is suitable for 'conventional' properties such as houses, flats and bungalows that are constructed from common building materials and in a reasonable condition. It will provide all of the information included in the Home Condition Report as well as the following additions:
a 'market valuation' based on the surveyor's professional opinion
a list of problems the surveyor considers may affect the value of the property
advice on repairs and ongoing maintenance
an insurance reinstatement figure
issues that need to be investigated further to prevent serious damage or dangerous conditions
legal issues that need to be addressed before conveyancing is completed
information on the location, local environment and, where available, information on the recorded energy efficiency‘

It says

‘The walls are of cavity masonry construction, part finished with cladding (elsewhere in the block)’

No other mention

It’s otherwise very detailed, eg

‘Gutters must be cleaned regularly to ensure water flows to down pipes’

And

‘No damp course material could be identified due to external coverage. It is likely to be….. we recommend you investigate further to ensure….’

Or

‘Roofing felt can become brittle with age… covering will need to be maintained in good condition’

It’s so detailed and long, a random damp patch obviously from a washing machine has a warning about investigation. As someone inexperienced you tend to follow advice and just pick up on what the surgery says, they are at least more expert than average. If you expect the buyer to notice, isn’t it reasonable a surveyor would?

I guess this is money lost, I’m just sad for them as they are now unlikely to be able for sometime to save up again for it all to do it again.

It's a huge huge problem at the moment. Just to test for a the EWS1 form costs many thousands. The works if required are crazy money but there is a Fund to assist.

Surveyors are working under RICS guidance
They can only raise it,which they have done
Does it not say anywhere on the report that the purchaser should make enquiries
Looks like the solicitor has raised it
At least the purchaser isn't committed to the purchase

Cladding has been an issue for years, and the certificates and cost of them (or recladding) have been a news item for years too!
Normally at the end of a homebuyers report it has a list of things for solicitor to check, usually the obvious: building regs, gas certificate etc. One would have thought this list included an EWS1 certificate when buying a flat in a cladded or part clad building.
I am surprised that the solicitor, surveyor and mortgage company all seem to have missed this. It should have been in the in the management pack too, which the solicitor reads and writes a summary of. If the certificate is a condition of sale (assuming the cladding itself is not a problem) then it needs to be provided?
As for pulling out and getting money back - it's his decision to pull out, and while he may have had reason to make a claim if he had bought and there were cladding problems down the line which should have been ascertained beforehand, he doesn't now.

oh FFS.

There has been stuff about cladding in every fucking newspaper regularly since Grenfell.

Caveat Emptor.

I'm surprised his mortgage company haven't picked up on it.

DOI: director of resident's management company and bloody sick of abusive emails from the owner in our block who doesn't appear to have read any of the stuff about cladding and is now boo-hooing that his flat sale (which only started after he was told we were initiating an EWS1 process) is going to fall through.

Another neighbour also wants to sell but has reported back that the local agents were advising not proceeding with marketing flats for sale until the block holds an EWS1 so god knows why aresehole neighbour even embarked upon trying to sell.

RICS website contains all the information about EWS1.

Personally I would run a bloody mile and not buy in a block until all the dust about fire safety settles down.

Boris and his mates are busy protecting the developers of residential property and screwing over everyone who bought in a modern block - you have no recourse against the developer if your block is over 15 years old even if EWS1 inspection process turns up that the building was constructed wrongly. You also can't litigate against building control who are meant to check the quality of ongoing construction and compliance with building regs.

So even if your building has a certificate from the local building control department it means nothing as many many blocks are finding problems that should have been picked up by building control when they embark on EWS1 certificates.

It is a national scandal.

But hey, all the developers donate to the conservative party, so nothing is being done about it.

I only think it will change when middle england who have invested their pension savings in buy to let start to realise the true costs.

I agree with everything that @Orf1abc said.

You or your relative can’t possibly tell if the cladding is flammable or not. Also the grading on the EWS1 depends on aspects on the building construction as well - it’s not just one factor.

Your relative needs to walk away from the sale and say goodbye to their money. They were foolish not to read the survey reports and to pay so much to solicitors and a mortgage broker upfront without reading the contracts / paperwork . It’s an expensive lesson.