Survey results — what should we do now? :(

[DisappointedFTB]

I'm feeling really shit right now. Today we got the building survey report back for a house we really liked and thought was in great condition (our understanding that there would be very little work needed on it was a big draw for us), and it turns out that there is some pretty major work that needs doing.

The most significant is that the loft conversion, which was advertised as a bedroom, apparently can't technically be classed as a habitable room. It's not just about fire doors and the like (though that is part of it) — the surveyor believes that the floor strength would not currently meet building regulation requirements. We haven't yet seen any building works certificates from the vendor (though apparently they are forthcoming for other works in the house), but we think it's possible that the conversion even predates their ownership of the house, so we may not be able to find out either way without getting in a structural engineer.

I don't know what to do. We were so convinced it was going to be smooth sailing, and had been planning our lives in the new place, and now this. Because it was advertised as having 6 bedrooms, but actually only has 5, how much does that change the value of the house? The survey literally referred to it as a 5-bedroom house the whole way though. Should we be trying to negotiate, and if so, by how much? Are we likely to succeed? We don't need the 6th bedroom right now, so could afford the time to do work on it, but I certainly don't want to be paying over the odds if it's not as advertised, and there is also the stress factor. But I will still be very sad if we have to pull out, as we haven't seen anything else suitable within our price range in that area (and for various reasons we will only consider buying in this particular area).

Another worrying thing on the survey was about how some slipped roof tiles are "an indication that the roof could require re-covering within the next few years" — this sounds like some potentially very expensive work.

What should we do? Has anyone had success negotiating on these sorts of grounds before? I was really hoping to avoid all of this, and now I'm really anxious.

Not going to comment on the loft conversion, but the roof thing seems to come up on every survey unless the surveyor has evidence that the roof was fitted basically yesterday.

It's all about perspective. When we sold a house the buyers survey said that the roof would be better off with a slate covering. They actually tried to negotiate the price down to get the cost of a new roof taken off! We told them to jog on. The roof was only 30 years old. If they wanted to choose a different roof material they could do so at their own expense and leisure.
All houses require maintenance. How old is the house and how old is the roof?
It's also a common fault for loft rooms not to be up to current building standards but you need to have perspective on this. How old is the house? You can't expect houses to be compliant with modern standards in every way. I think you need to do a bit more digging of your own and not take the survey at face value.

The roof thing is standard surveyor speak. The loft conversion is still an extra room and you don’t yet know that building certs aren’t available. If it’s the most suitable house in the area you want, put in your best offer and hope for the best (unless this house has been on the market for ages).

Are you a first time buyer? How old is the house?

Surveys are basically an arse covering exercise by the surveyor where they point out absolutely everything that could possibly be wrong with a property.

We bought a 300 year old house, you can imagine the survey that came back on that and our house is in very good condition. The reality is property needs a certain level of constant investment and updating, how much will depend on the age of the property and should be factored in.

Does the survey down value the property? How does the price compare to others sold in the area?
The roof thing wouldn’t worry me much and the loft conversion would only bother me if I had overpaid for the house.

Not many loft conversions would meet 'current' building regs as they do change frequently. My roof supports were exposed when a building regs guy was here for something else and he commented that they didn't meet current regs. So what? They've held up the roof for 150 years and I wasn't going to change them - if I was modifying the space then I would have to.
Unless he exposed the joists he doesn't know about the floor strength. If he says the floors were 'bouncy' and some other indications, then you can investigate the cost of strengthening them.
The roof thing is par for the course - every roof will need attention 'in years to come'.

The house is 1930s, and yes, this is our first time buying a house (though family members who have done a fair bit of buying and selling are concerned about the comments on the attic room, so I don't think it's just us being oversensitive). This room has not been used as a bedroom by the current owners, but it was very much marketed as a bedroom (and is one of the better-sized rooms, so we were hoping to use it as such).

A few comments from the report:

• This space is classed as not fit for habitation
• It does not comply with modern fire safety regulations.
• Evidence of significant movement was apparent in the floor.
• Levels of insulation may be inadequate.
• As it is not up to current Building Regulation standards, particularly for fire safety, this floor should only be used for light storage, and it cannot be marketed as a “bedroom” in any future sale, which may devalue the property.

Would you not be trying to negotiate in this instance, given that it sounds like expensive work is needed to turn it into the bedroom it was advertised as? It's not just official sign-off that I'm worried about. If the floor is not suitable for habitation, then I don't want to be taking safety risks by using it as a living space.

What do similar 5 bed houses in the area go for?

It sounds like it is a big house with a loft space that should not be used as a bedroom. We had this, bought and sold as such. Wouldn't pass building regulations due to space for the staircase, head room, probably windows as well. It was however, a decent space that we used as an occasional bedroom and study space.

The roof is fairly standard as tiles do indeed slip and can be replaced for a small cost and at some stage, the roof may need replacing but just look around at the houses in your area... usually those with new roofs have had loft work done at the same time.

See it as a 5 bed house that has the possibility for a full loft conversation at some stage which is likely to mean a new floor including supports.

I’d not worry about the roof but I’d be very concerned about the loft conversion. I’d not use it for anything other than light storage as suggested, otherwise there could be a very nasty accident.

So you need to assume it’s a five bed house with a normal loft. No one can guess the devaluation without seeing the property and location.

You could get an independent estate agent to value it as a 5 bed and see the difference.

As I said previously I would only renegotiate if I had paid over the value for a 5 bed house

@BarkingUpTheWrongRoseBush How would we go about getting an independent estate agent valuation?

Another thing I'm worried about is getting this sorted (if we do go ahead with it) before 30th June. We were told when we started the process that that should be no problem, but I'm very worried given all the things we apparently have to sort out as a result of this survey.

As far as similar 5-bedroom houses in the area go, I'm not sure, as so little is on the market right now, and there aren't many sales from recent years. However there is a 4-bedroom for sale about 3 doors down that is built in the same style, quite a lot less polished inside (we'd want to do a full redecoration I imagine, with new kitchen etc.), with no loft room but a bigger garden, on the market for 23% less.

FWIW there is a staircase leading to the loft room in ours, and the room has been used as a sort of "playroom" by the current owners. We really don't like the idea of paying for a 6-bedroom house if we'd need to shell out lots of money to actually use it as a 6-bedroom. I just feel really stressed now and don't know what to do next. I don't think we should be the ones to pay to make it "habitable", because we were under the impression it already was.

What valuation has the surveyor put on the house? That is the key thing you need to see before you can decide whether to consider proceeding.

It depends. The conversion may have met regulations at the time, and have certificates ti that effect. They are updated over time. Did they value it to your offer or as a 5 bed plus bonus room? It does not sound like a structural survey, you could commission a surveyor to investigate specific concerns.

Ask him for his valuation if you've not seen it.

The surveyor didn't provide a valuation. We will be arranging a post-survey chat — is that something we could informally ask about (and expect an answer to), even though a valuation wasn't officially part of our survey package?

The house was marketed as a 6-bedroom, but the survey report called it a 5-bedroom the entire way through.

I would phone surveyors and ask their advice re value.

You shouldn’t worry about the roof, it’s fairly standard to have something with it unless it’s new. However loft conversion is more serious and require attention. No one can tell you what to do. Could you talk to surveyor to clarify the situation a bit? How inhabitable is the space? Does it mean that you can’t put king size bed in it or even a box with Xmas decorations? What kind of work might be needed? You can phone around and ask builders about possible costs.
Finally did you pay for the valuation with the survey? If so, what was the outcome?
The valuation will give your room for negotiation. Otherwise the survey indicates which further investigations are needed and you go from there.
Our survey indicated that some problems with electrics so we did electrical survey and negotiated 5 k from the agreed price for electrical works.
However we were in the situation when survey indicated some structural issues which were important for us but said that agreed price is reasonable for the area so vendor reduced to negotiate and we just dropped our offer.

Do you need a mortgage on the back of this?

I phoned surveyor and found them much more willing to talk on phone than in report so worth a try. Another approach would be to get a quote for getting up to standards and builders view.

If you can do without a 6 bedroom and use loft only for storage, then negotiate it down the price of a 5 bedroom house in that area.
Don't make an emotional decision because you like the house and are vested in the purchase. The house was misrepresented to you intentionally or otherwise by the vendor and you have strong grounds for re-negotiation.

If you need a mortgage then the surveyor will definitely have valued the house for the mortgage lender. Ime they've always shared their valuation with us when we've been buying. You'll soon know from the lender if the valuation is less than the agreed sale price, but best to find out asap.

@DblEspresso

If you can do without a 6 bedroom and use loft only for storage, then negotiate it down the price of a 5 bedroom house in that area. Don't make an emotional decision because you like the house and are vested in the purchase. The house was misrepresented to you intentionally or otherwise by the vendor and you have strong grounds for re-negotiation.

Be prepared for the sellers to dispute a down valuation and a downsizing of bedrooms as they may well have not encountered what you have when they were buying it.

The house will be subject to the building regs if they existed when built.

A bedroom in the loft would be fine then and still is.

If it was built that way then it is a bedroom.
Depending what was needed at the time of building or when alterations were made.

Just get your solicitor to get them to pay for indemnity insurance in case anything goes wrong with the floor if it's been used for years it wouldn't concern me.