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Odd one about old public right of way across our garden

77 replies

GlomOfNit · 07/04/2021 18:19

I'm not sure what I'm after, posting about this - I suppose I just wanted some other opinions!

We moved into this semi 10 years ago. The houses on this road are arranged in sort of C blocks (god that sounds like a prison! Grin ) so some are right on the road and some are set back. Ours is set back from the road and accessed by a footpath that serves 4 other houses (it sort of branches at one point. Yes I do need to draw a diagram, I think). The NDNs that we're joined onto are also set back from the road. We are not concerned with them here...

Our other NDNs, we are not joined onto (semis, remember) and their house is aligned at 90 degrees to ours. Their front gate is also served by this footpath from the main road.

They have lived there forever (think the man actually grew up there, back when all these houses were council houses. There are about 20 and I think the council/HA now retain about 5 of them - all others are privately owned, including ours and these NDNs). The guy who lives there is VERY self-assured about his rights and so on. He claims that back in the day, a public right of way path used to exist - it ran from the main road, followed the existing footpath serving these houses and continued through our front garden, running between his boundary and ours but within our boundary IYSWIM, and then into his actual garden, then down what is now his drive and out the back onto the access lane. (an additional wrinkle here is that many of these houses are accessible by car only from the rear. Ours and his are two of those and we have long driveways the length of our back gardens, which feed onto a back access lane.)

NDN Guy has always been mildly belligerent about this old right of way and claims that it still exists, even though no member of the public would now use it, since it ends at his garden fence! He says it's on us to keep it clear and make sure he and his partner can get onto it in order to trim their various shrubs and vines that climb their fence, and that they have every right to do this without asking us. They DO sometimes tell us they're coming into our front garden to trim things - but make a BIG point of saying 'this is just a courtesy to you, because of course this is a right of way' Hmm

NDN Guy says that ages ago (eg before our time) he bought a thin strip of land off the council that, because of some odd foible, they still owned and which ran down his driveway at the back, and was therefore able to make his driveway a) wider, and b) private. He says by doing this, he closed off the public right of way at his boundary line, BUT that since it still runs across our front garden, he and his (annoying) partner can still pop in any time they like, without notice.

I do try to get on with him. He's basically friendly but does like to fiddle about in his garden and is never still. Hence all the trimming, etc. He is v long-suffering because we 'are no gardeners' (in his words) and basically have a long strip of grass and a couple of trees out the back (none of which overhang his property), plus a tallish hedge that screens the boundary between his house and ours. This is sometimes a point of contention because we let it grow fairly bushy (the birds like it) and he wants to be able to see over it from his upstairs windows to the View (which is nice). We know he has no right to a view over our land but hey, we try to keep the peace, so it gets a good prune most years. He also doesn't like the hedge because it runs along this mythical right of way and means he can't access it as easily as he would like to.

So. Not even sure what I want to know. Grin Is he BU? Are we? Is that even a thing, a right of way that hasn't been exercised for probably decades apart from by him? Can it still be a right of way if he actually blocked off one end of it? Does this potentially make our property vulnerable in any way, in the future?

OP posts:
GreyhoundG1rl · 07/04/2021 18:23

If he hasn't made use of it in the preceding 20 years it will have lapsed, assuming it ever existed.

MimiPigeon · 07/04/2021 18:23

He is being VVVU.

Check online for public rights of way. You could also contact the council. You will probably find the right of way doesn’t exist. Provide him with this evidence and ask him to stay off your property. If he persists, get your solicitor to write to him.

If the right of way does exist, apply to the council to have it removed as it’s no longer in use and is blocked off.

GrimDamnFanjo · 07/04/2021 18:25

There are public footpath maps on my county councils website.

mumwon · 07/04/2021 18:27

deeds - if there is a right of way it will show as a dotted line across your property

countrygirl99 · 07/04/2021 18:27

Your council should have a copy of the definitive map on their website. If it isn't on there he would need to apply for a modification order and have a shed load of evidence to prove it. Most councils have a backlog of years for processing modification applications.

Babysharkdododont · 07/04/2021 18:35

Fuck that, his attitude would infuriate me, I'd be telling him to get off my garden from now on, fuck neighbourly relations, he sounds like a tool.

GlomOfNit · 07/04/2021 18:44

Damn, trying to upload my beautiful diagram!

In response - well, he has used this alleged 'right of way' so it's still valid. As far as I understand, if the public continue to use a right of way without having to ask permission, the right of way remains current. it only lapses if the public haven't used it for a certain period of time. I know a little bit about this because we had a fairly unpleasant new landowner in the village a few years ago who set about restricting existing public rights of way ...

OP posts:
GlomOfNit · 07/04/2021 18:51

try again

Odd one about old public right of way across our garden
OP posts:
GlomOfNit · 07/04/2021 18:53

BabyShark I can't really press the nuclear button, he remains our neighbour and one day we might want to sell and don't want a record of boundary disputes. Or build an extension. He's awkward and perfectly capable of being an arse if and when we ever want to do that.

OP posts:
GoToSleepBabyPlease · 07/04/2021 18:58

Find out from the council as PP said.

GlomOfNit · 07/04/2021 19:01

I think I will, if only to reassure myself that either he's talking bollocks, or that we may have an issued compromising the value of our property if and when we sell it.

OP posts:
Notavegan · 07/04/2021 19:02

You need the definitive RoW map. Not usually expensive

PurplePlain · 07/04/2021 19:02

So the right of way through your property still exists, but the right of way through his property doesn't. Convenient for him.

MrsBungle · 07/04/2021 19:03

A* for for the diagram. If check deeds then not entertain him further.

TheBullfinch · 07/04/2021 19:05

Didnt your solicitor go through property boundaries with you when you bought it?

CoffeeRunner · 07/04/2021 19:08

Why is he trimming that hedge? Isn't it in your garden?

museumum · 07/04/2021 19:12

What does the blue boundary between your garden and his consist of? Why would he not just take one step to the side and walk along his own side of it?

user1471530109 · 07/04/2021 19:13

It's a similar layout on my road (also ex council). There is no RoW like you say, but most houses have gates from their gardens to the allotments behind. Some house have agreements with some of the houses that don't back onto the allotments, that they can go through their gardens to get access. When I first moved in, one of the neighbours was walking through my garden as he had been for the past 30+ years Shock but no one said anything to me before buying. Thankfully my builders spotted him and nicely told him they didn't think I'd be too happy about that and he's stopped without speaking to me directly. He now goes through another neighbours garden. Like yours, my house and garden is parallel to the road, his is perpendicular so he doesn't have direct access to the allotments iyswim.

Do you think it's something like that? Not an official RoW but more of an agreement he had with the past homeowners?

RedRosie · 07/04/2021 19:13

I have no idea re the question.

But excellent graphics! Grin

UhtredRagnarson · 07/04/2021 19:14

excellent diagram OP!! Well done! WRT the ROW you need to find out for sure from the council. You need to know.

Tiktaktoe · 07/04/2021 19:16

@PurplePlain

So the right of way through your property still exists, but the right of way through his property doesn't. Convenient for him.
Absolutely this, if he can 'block off' the right of way, so can you. I would imagine he is talking nonsense. Check your deeds.
GlomOfNit · 07/04/2021 19:16

The hedge is in our garden (I think!! he might one day claim it's actually on the right of way, but that would still be our land, I think) and he doesn't come in to trim that hedge (he just moans to us about it until we do it ourselves. It's about a metre and a half high and gives us privacy, plus homes to a colony of house sparrows. We are not about to get rid of it!). He comes into our front garden to trim the bits of climbing vine and so on that come over from his side of his fence. (They're hops, a bloody PITA frankly because they grow very fast in summer and raise weals if you get snagged by them.)

Re. our solicitor, we can't remember, but the survey that was done wasn't hugely comprehensive. For one thing, they didn't say that the house adjoining us was still council-owned. This hasn't been an issue as yet and I don't think it will be, but I think was something we should have known about.

Miraculously in this cluttered house, DH has just located the original house purchase docs and is perusing them as I type! Grin

and thanks for the A*. I try. Wink

OP posts:
GlomOfNit · 07/04/2021 19:17

Sorry, for clarity I should say, the house adjoining us on the other side - our semi-detached neighbours, marked as 'Irrelevant NDNs' on my A* diagram. Wink

OP posts:
redastherose · 07/04/2021 19:31

I'd imagine what he's claiming is that there is a prescriptive right of way rather than a public footpath from what you've said. This is a right of way acquired through usage. If it was a public footpath he couldn't just extinguish the part over his land by buying it so everyone could actually walk through his land as well. The procedure to stop up a public footpath is very long winded and involved.

GreyhoundG1rl · 07/04/2021 19:36

That diagram looks really odd. Right of way across adjoining land is usually granted to allow people access to the street. But his actual garden fronts onto the street Confused
Check your deeds, op.