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Original poster

No completion certificate

37 replies

WalkinginMemphis2 · 26/03/2021 10:26

Tearing my hair out!

We had small kitchen extension done 7yrs ago, all above board sought planning/building regs, ended up being a permitted development due to size. But we paid for the local authority inspection package, plans signed off etc. And used a very reputable local builder.

All fine no problems. V happy with end builder. DH dealt with all the council stuff and I dealt with builders and water company and electric provider.

Anyway coming to sell we have a raft of paper work from LA, gas safe for new boiler and NEIC for electrics but no 'completion certificate' this is the first I've ever heard of such a thing. Although reading through all the stuff we bought a package that was supposed to cover this.

Buyer's sol being difficult, we have set them everything we have and can both remember someone from local auth coming round at various points and have been back in touch with builder who has confirmed yes he would have arranged all this. Like I said v v reputable builder with big waiting list so I have no reason to think he wouldn't have booked in all the inspections. But we just don't have this damned bit of paper.

Here's the kicker tho, the remedial action if all parties amiable is insurance, which yes we know and would be quite happy to pay for but understand this doesn't solve the issue. However for that to be an option we're not allowed to check with the council to see if its all being done and it was merely a case if us not having ever requested the cert. As neither of us knew we needed one (well DH would have done if he'd have read the bustard letter properly). Or the inspection has never been done as this prejudices the propective insurance policy apparently. We've paid for it i know that bloody much as have the invoice and receipt!

Any one had anything similar either as a buyer or seller? I'm so upset we're just not normally the sort of people who don't do things properly.

Everything online comes at the position of the seller having done it on the QT and never having got planning/building control from the outset - but thats not the case here, we have absolutely loads of documentation from the LA regarding it and a full planning ref (which suspiciously isn't coming up on the planning portal but we've been told it should), just not this particular document. And if you want to get it checked retrospectively they would have to dismantle it and have it re-built.WTAH surely that's madness?!?

Like I said builder v reputable and popular and I just can't see him not having done this , he arranged for and counter signed the electectrical cert stuff and the gas safe one even though he sub contracted these bits so I can't imagine he would have ever not filled the building control process.

Surely there's got to be something we can do as we have followed the proper process so far as we knew have loads of documentation to prove that.

OP posts:
OnTheBenchOfDoom · 26/03/2021 10:32

@WalkinginMemphis2 Is it not showing online on the planning portal? Mine shows as needing planning permission and then I have 2 building control applications against my house for the 2 things we did. It says "building work complete"

So you don't have to physically check with the council but can view it in the council planning site.

Tillymintsmama · 26/03/2021 10:33

You're right, it's madness. I'm convinced that conveyancing solicitors get commission for selling this indemnity insurance, which actually isn't worth the paper it's written on.

You'll probably end up paying for it though, if you want to move.

Original poster
WalkinginMemphis2 · 26/03/2021 10:36

@OnTheBenchOfDoom that is what we we're told to do but this is the suspicious thing no....nothing under our address or the planning ref thats on all the letters we have, we've been told it should be there the sickening things is we're not even allowed to check.

OP posts:
Original poster
WalkinginMemphis2 · 26/03/2021 10:41

@Tillymintsmama oh yes I'm not bothered about paying for it but the buyer has got to agree to that and if it were me I'd rather have the cert. Just so frustrating knowing it could all be there but we're not allowed to check....but everything we've read re this comes at from the assumption that if you don't have the cert then you've not had planning/building regs sign off to start with but that isn't the case here. We can't be the only ones who have tried to do it properly but are just missing this but of paper. DH has just rung council anonymously to ask if these are sent out automatically and they've said it depends, so could very well be all there and done - so frustrating

OP posts:
OnTheBenchOfDoom · 26/03/2021 10:47

@WalkinginMemphis2 did you pay your building control cert through your builder? I paid mine separately to the council but it doesn't have to be the council who sign it off just a person qualified to do it.

I would contact the builder and play a bit cute, asking if he has any paperwork relating to the work he did. See what he says to that first then ask about the building control bit, say you can't find it in your paperwork.

It seems odd that you have electrical completion certs and yet not the building control one.

Original poster
WalkinginMemphis2 · 26/03/2021 10:54

No @OnTheBenchOfDoom we paid via LA nougbt the package that included 3 inspections and the cert, have the invoice and receipt. I can remember them coming i know that. Builder said it would come to us, reading through the stuff it is rather evasive but does seem to suggest that once everything was done we would have to request the physical cert....although that's not entirely clear, but we never knew anything about it so certainly haven't done this.

OP posts:
Dogsandbabies · 26/03/2021 11:02

We were the buyers in a similar situation only about a week ago. We didn't want to accept the indemnity so told the sellers that they either sort the certificate or we are pulling out. They contacted the council and got the certificate within 3 working days.

If you think there are no problems with the extension that is probably the best you can do.

OnTheBenchOfDoom · 26/03/2021 11:04

@WalkinginMemphis2 So they clearly have done site visits but possibly not the final visit to sign off on the build.

The indemnity insurance is standard in these situations and does solve the issue. We have bought houses with indemnity insurance which would cover any issues that arise. I would get your solicitor to tell their solicitor you will pay for indemnity insurance and that you acted in good faith re the build.

OnTheBenchOfDoom · 26/03/2021 11:07

@Dogsandbabies they were lucky that building control didn't want to come in and lift floors and put holes in the wall and ceiling to check things like insulation and fireproof plasterboard.

It isn't usually that straight forward to just get a completion certificate. If you call the council and ask for the certificate then you invalidate any possibility of future indemnity insurance.

Have you bought many houses?

Dogsandbabies · 26/03/2021 11:13

They didn't need to do all of that because they had documented evidence through the process of the compliance. The OP suggests that the council did carry out all the necessary inspections. If that is the case it should be more straight forward than if not.

Mildura · 26/03/2021 11:25

[quote OnTheBenchOfDoom]**@Dogsandbabies they were lucky that building control didn't want to come in and lift floors and put holes in the wall and ceiling to check things like insulation and fireproof plasterboard.

It isn't usually that straight forward to just get a completion certificate. If you call the council and ask for the certificate then you invalidate any possibility of future indemnity insurance.

Have you bought many houses?[/quote]
Indemnity insurance is utterly pointless in any practical sense.

The only thing it protects against is the possibility of enforcement action from the local authority - the chances of which are around zero.

It sounds to me in both the situation the OP is in, as well as what happened with the property @Dogsandbabies was buying, is that all of the inspections took place as they should have done during the construction phase and the only bit missed out was the final inpsection. Therefore no need to lift floors and put holes in the walls as there would have been a record of this from earlier inspections.

Have you bought many houses?

user1471462428 · 26/03/2021 12:49

If you have the receipt ring the council and ask them for the final visit. I had this exact scenario and they came within the week. It was a ten minute inspection as they’d seen as they went along. In my case it had never got a completion certificate as the building inspector left and didn’t hand over his work.

Original poster
WalkinginMemphis2 · 26/03/2021 12:58

Urghhh that's the thing @user1471462428 we've been told we can't. How long after did you do that this was 7 years ago now 🤔 😳

OP posts:
Original poster
WalkinginMemphis2 · 26/03/2021 13:08

Exactly @Mildura it seems to be enforcement for not having sought planning, but we have. And they can only come after you in 12 months.

Like I was saying in my OP everything online, legaly insurance wise seems to assume well if you don't have a completion cert you haven't sought planning but thats not the case here, surely people must lose things all the time doesn't mean they're dodgy. Just all so weird and frustrating.

OP posts:
Midlifephoenix · 26/03/2021 13:09

I built an extension and we never got the final sign off as the builder (mistakenly) believed we needed an external lock on the door and it just took ages and ages then we forgot about it. Then I put my house on the market and thought yikes we need that sign off - called the council, guy came out a couple days later, quick check (and they had the file from previous visits) and certificate issued.
I had paid council separately, it was permitted development so no planning.
Indemnity insurance really doesn't do anything other than tick that box for the lawyer.

bilbodog · 26/03/2021 13:20

You are told not to contact the council as this then invalidates an indemnity policy.

However, It sounds as if everything has been done correctly with just the final sign off not competed. Just ring the council and get them to issue the final certificate. They may need to come and have a final look at the property just to remind themselves. We had to do this. It seems very common for this final piece of paperwork to be forgotten by builders and councils - causing huge problems like this when people try to sell.

Good luck getting it sorted.

LooksLikeImStuckHere · 26/03/2021 13:23

We had the council out to do our completion cert 4 years after the work started. We had it by the end of the week...

joystir59 · 26/03/2021 13:27

Just pay for the indemnity insurance. Job done.

Original poster
WalkinginMemphis2 · 26/03/2021 13:31

@joystir59 can only do that if the buyer feels thats enough.....not sure they will 😑

OP posts:
FurierTransform · 26/03/2021 13:58

This is super super common & it sounds like you have much more paperwork than the typical person!
I'm sure they'll l accept the indemnity. If they don't - I'd honestly consider it a dodged bullet as their conveyancer must be completely incompetent to not recommend they accept it, & their incompetence/poor guidance will likely cause issues later on in the process.

Dogsandbabies · 26/03/2021 14:06

@FurierTransform

This is super super common & it sounds like you have much more paperwork than the typical person! I'm sure they'll l accept the indemnity. If they don't - I'd honestly consider it a dodged bullet as their conveyancer must be completely incompetent to not recommend they accept it, & their incompetence/poor guidance will likely cause issues later on in the process.
That's not right. I would never accept indemnity in this case. And I am certainly not incompetent. The lack of a completion certificate can cause real issues if they want to extend further or make alterations that require planning permission.

In my case I didn't accept the indemnity, the vendors sorted the planning and we exchanged today. It would have been foolish of them to pull out because we were 'incompetent'.

BigRedBoat · 26/03/2021 14:09

We forgot to get the final completion for some building works on a house we sold, it came up in the conveyancing so we just got the buildings regs guy round to do his final visit (over a year after the work was done), he was only in the house 5 mins and he said it's fairly common people forget the final visit.

sarahc336 · 26/03/2021 14:12

Op loads of buyers are ok with indemity policies, if your current one isn't which is fair enough, don't loose hope x

MrsSDK · 26/03/2021 14:17

Similar position a few weeks ago as buyer. Indemnity insurance protects mortgage company, it doesn't protect the buyer in any real sense. Our seller requested the certificate from the council and it was issued in 3 days. Good luck!

AnneElliott · 26/03/2021 14:28

Can you not just call building control at the LA, tell them you never had a final cert, get them to come out and sign it off? That's totally normal.

DH used to be LA Building Control and did this all the time. If you put an application in and they visited the likely they'll pop round and then give you the final cert.

I thought insurance was where you had my made an application and there could be something wrong with it?