Info on water-cooled air conditioning? Not evaportaive cooling but ordinary ac with water-cooled condensers

[ParentOfOne]

Does any one have (or know of / or has seen in action ) water-cooled air-conditioning? I don't mean those thingies that spray water in the air, but those-air conditionng units which, instead of being connected to an external fan, dissipate the heat with a condenser, placed indoors, connected to the water pipes. Something like: www.coolyoudirect.co.uk/solutions/water-cooled-air-conditioning/ where the units you put in your room are the same as ordinary ones, but you don't have the big ugly fan outdoors.

I am not sure I can get planning permission so I want to consider some alternatives.

I am also not sure about the enviromental impact, because ordinary aircon throws hot air outdoors; these systems don't, but they use up some (not sure how much) water in the process.

PS Please note, the question is NOT whether you think I should have air conditioning or not.
If you want to discuss this matter please open a separate thread but do not hijack mine.
No, fans are not enough and yes, I have tried other measures, from applying specific 3M film to the windows to opening a skylight so heat escapes. I still get temperatures of 33 to 37C in some rooms. I would kindly remind that you cannot transport live cattle in temperatures > 30C, and that any employer forcing their employees to work in these conditions would be taken to court, and lose.

I am aware that airconditioning is not good for the planet, but neither is heating our homes, yet no one advocates we withstand freezing temperatures in the winter, as far as I am aware.

I have a similar issue and I spoke to them they actually advised me not to use them they said that it they ever come across anyone who can have conventional air con it's so much better than their system. I went with the normal big ugly type. Like you say unless someone else has experience in these ridiculous temps inside they shouldn't comment it used to make me vomit and I tried everything I could to cool the house

We have that exact system and it’s been great. Family member also used another company to install a similar internal system and also loves it. We are both in flats which get super hot in the summer and where having an external unit was not an option.

@Notinknots Do you remember which company you and your relatives used? Have you checked how much extra water you actually end up using?

So far I have found 3 companies: AllComfortolutions, UrbanCooling and CoolYouDirect.

CoolYouDirect seems the most expensive one.

AllComfortSolutions the most transparent one on the parts it uses: it imports the product of an Italian manufacturer which produces both the condenser and the internal units. It's not clear to me if the others take parts from other companies and somehow readapt them (eg one uses Panasonic internal units), nor if this is something I should be concerned about.

@toddlerchaos Not sure I followed.
Which company did you contact? And why did they recommend you not to use them? Because traditional aircon is cheaper? Was it about the upfront cost, the running costs, or the reliability in the long run?

As for the cost, traditional aircon tends to be cheaper but, if you want to do things by the book and get a noise assessment, maybe get some noise-dampening panels or enclosure, get an electrician to add a dedicated socket outdoors, apply for planning permission etc, with all these extra costs traditional aircon can easily end up more expensive.

I get it that many people install it without getting planning permission, but these systems are too expensive, I cannot risk my neghbours complaning and getting me to remove them - I must be sure the council is OK before I spend the money.

We used CoolYou who were very good and offer a yearly maintenance for I think 5 years. My family member used Urban cooling. We are both happy with the outcome but yes there was a big price difference between the two (we hadn’t heard of Urban Cooling when we did ours but our family member found them when they installed theirs about a year or so later). We haven’t checked about the extra water. We are just glad to be cool all year around now as the summers were borderline intolerable previously.

It was cool you direct, it was £20,000 for 4 rooms, it's not as effective apparently and more likely to go wrong so they recommended a traditional system. I didn't need planning as stayed within the rules for installing, 1m from a neighbour and size etc in cubic meters. I wanted to use them despite the cost as it was better than the other solutions, but he didn't want to sell to me, despite having a place to keep the system etc. I found them very ethical on that front.

@Notinknots How long have you and your relatives had it?

In how many rooms do you have the aircon on at the same time? Have you noticed that, say, you cannot have it in more than 2 rooms, or you cannot shower and have it in 1 room at the same time, because otherwise you are using too much water and there isn't enough pressure?

Forgot to mention "Zero Degree Air Conditioning" - same price range as cool you direct.

AllComfortSolutions imports these www.parkair.it/prodotti/aqua-revolution/ - but the website seems to be only in Italian!

One thing I like about traditional aircon is that, even if the intaller goes bust, there is still a manufacturer warranty and it's easy to find another installer to service or repair it. With these water-cooled systems, instead, if your installer goes bust you're probably stuck.

We have had ours for about two years and our relative just over a year. We have it in three rooms and have found all can be used at the same time whilst not having any effect on the shower. Personally if I could have an external system I would because they are generally cheaper to install in the first instance and like you’ve said repairs are easier long term should you need them. My understanding is that Urban Cooling does both traditional and the internal system whereas CoolYou specialise in the internal system only.

Water cooled A/C? Is this the same as a Swap cooler as they are commonly know in the US. If so they work great unless it is very humid. Friend used hers a lot, but once the temp got hot enough, she would turn it off and put on the central a/c you could feel the whoe house suddenly drop in temp and the air dry out making it more comfortable.

@FedUpAtHomeTroels No, what you call swamp coolers are evaporative coolers. www.energy.gov/energysaver/home-cooling-systems/evaporative-coolers They consume less energy, but are not as good at cooling down a room, and only really make sense in dry enviornments - you don't want to make an already humid place more humid.

With the system I have in mind, the internal units you put in a room are the same as those of a standard system; the difference is that they get rid of the heat via a condenser which uses water, instead of expelling it outdoors via a big fan (the external unit).

In Europe, these systems are used in residential applications only when putting a normal external unit isn't possible (eg because of building regulations). In the US, aircon is everywhere, so I imagine these constraints are almost unheard of, therefore defying the need for these systems.

I really wish there were a compromise between the US extreme of wasting aircon (I have seen people wearing down jackets such was the aircon in public spaces) and the European one, where you are basically an enemy of mankind if you dare say you want aircon!

The ones we had in Gran Canaria when we visited had a unit on the wall inside and fan outside and seemed very good, but noisy.
So if they get rid of the heat via water condenser, where does the water go? Is there a drain of some sort?
I find the different ways of A/C quite interesting.
I've only had a few days in UK where we could have done with some A/C I put a desk fan on on those days, and wear less But I know a few people here who really suffer in the heat and would really benefit from it.

Hi!! I’m Also looking to instal water cooled condenser AC units in our childrens bedrooms up at the top floor and am currently undecided between both companies quoted here. I wanted to know from @ParentOfOne - what did you go with in the end? Are you satisfied with it?
also wanted to ask @Notinknots if you’re still happy with your Cool You system? How about your relatives with their Urban Cooling system?
mum tempt to go with Urban, as they are almost half the price.
Any feedback would be hugely appreciated.

thanks

In the end I went with AllComfortSolutions. I'd recommend them.

The water bill didn't increase that much. I am happy with the system - to be honest I had no alternative: an illegal installation of an ordinary system with the external unit, without planning permission, would have meant the risk of the council forcing me to remove the system. No aircon is not an option in a south-facing loft: the point is not how often the external temperature is > 30C, the point is that even when outside it's only 22C it can be >30C inside. Things like blackout blinds or wooden shutters help but only up to a point. External awnings would have helped even more but they would have been tricky to install.

My main advice is be sure that whoever comes for a quote is the person who will actually be doing the job and not some kind of clueless salesperson: I say this because the salesperson who did the initial quotation had underestimated the complexity of the job. Basically a lot more plasterboard than he anticipated had to be cut in order to connect the condenser to the actual aircon units. They honoured the initial quote (but the guy got a grilling from his boss) however, to make good, I called the builders who had refurbished our house and that was an extra cost.

The main reason I went with AllComfortSolutions is that I liked the fact that they were selling a system built specifically this way, made by an Italian company you can look up etc. With the others, it's not clear who makes these systems, if they just adapt them somehow, etc.

Hi
I hope you don't mind me asking if you would mind giving an update on your Air Con. We have recently moved into a flat in London and have experienced indoor temperatures of around 35c - like others have said we tried everything to get the temperature down with out any success and are now looking to install some air con ourselves.

We have had CoolYou round and have their quote and we have had a video call with Urban Cooling and have their quote - there is a massive difference in the quotes.
So what I'm really wondering is are you and your relative, still happy with your choices - and did they live up to your expectations in keeping you cool in your flats?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks again

Hi, we were very happy with our install from Cool you and the after care service. My relative has been equally happy with their install from Urban cooling and they certainly paid a lot less. I’d say whoever you go with make sure they do a proper survey first and actually visit your properly and explain where the pipes will be running and the condenser unit is going. That’s almost impossible to do via a video survey. Good luck!

Thank you so much - that was very helpful - it's a worry when you are spending so much money and to have an independent opinion, especially as you have knowledge of both companies was brilliant.
Thanks again - have a great day.

Hi all,

Is everyone still happy with their water cooling systems? I'm trying to choose between three different providers and wondering where everyone stands. We are in central London

@ParentOfOne, @Notinknots, @JFM, @Jojoconceicao CoolYou, Urban Cooling and All Comfort Solutions have called me back... that was quick! Would love your thoughts on how everything has held up and what you'd recommend going forward

We’ve since moved and used Urban Cooling in our new place (CoolYou told me they don’t do external systems). We’ve been happy with the Urban C customer service as when things have gone wrong they’ve always booked an appointment to come over and fix. However, on the downside we have had to call them to come out a few times. With our previous Coolyou install we only ever had one call out. Hard to compare though as it’s two different systems (internal vs external) and the external installation was a lot more complex. My relative who has the internal Urban Cooling system has been very happy and not had to call them out since install. We were all very comfortable in the summer heatwaves!

@Notinknots that's great to know! Do you mind me asking where you are based? Did you get any references before going with them? It seems like most people haven't heard about this type of cooling so I'm worried about being an early adopter even though it's been around for a while!

We are London based.To be honest I’d never heard of the internal type of install either until we got so desperate with the horrible heat at our former place and researched ways to cool down. We didn’t get any references at the time. Once it was installed, it was life changing! I’d not be without air con now. When we moved, it was the first thing we booked in to install!

@Notinknots ah great -- thank you!

@londo29 TBH I don't have much to add to what I have already said.
I am happy with AllComfortSolutions and the Parkair units they have installed. I would choose them again and I'd recommend them again to anyone interested in this type of solutions.

The only thing I would say is that, while they work well, take up less space (as it's a wall installation) are more energy-efficient and less noisy than a portable aircon, the difference in price is also massive, so do consider if a portable aircon might work for you.

Ah, ignore the envirotalibans who will think you are an enemy of the people for wanting aircon. In a south-facing loft, aircon is the only thing that can make it fit for humans in 2 to 3 months of the year. Consider that live cattle cannot be transported in temperatures > 30 C. If the same rules applied to lofts, then it would be illegal to be in most lofts during the summer.

Thanks so much for responding! When you say the difference in price is massive, do you mean to install or to run? I haven't been able to get a firm answer on how much water / power these things use and how it stacks up to other common appliances! How's your water bill?