Building over the sewage pipe manhole cover. Help!

[Shitpipe]

Got plans for an extension.
Have discovered that there's a sewer pipe under where we want the kitchen to go. We share with next door. They have a conservatory over their bit.

The junction access cover would need to be in the new kitchen. Can't redirect it cos of next door.

Water board didn't even know the drain was there. They haven't accessed it for 50 years.

Architect doesn't think water board will pass it.

We don't want to move, but the house is too small. Anyone had anything similar?

Any manholes on the public sewer would need to be removed and a Y-junction introduced. A new manhole should really be provided outside the footprint of the extension. Unless there is already one close by that is accessible and has no chance of being covered over or removed. If the water company require you to provide a manhole, you’ll need to re-consider the design of your extension.

So there's no chance they'd let us have it in the house? With a trapdoor?

There's no other way for the extension to work. Gutted. Really, really don't want to move.

You can build over a public sewer, you have to provide a manhole and there are special ones but I really wouldn't. I lived in one house where the yard flooded with sewage during heavy rain and was only an inch from the back door sill. I then bought a house with a manhole in the conservatory (not my finest hour) I was able to move the drains easily further back. It was a shared sewer and when the builder came round to do the pre work check we lifted the manhole and it was full of shit. Thank fully yorkshire water came round and sorted the problem.

We've lifted the manhole cover and it was clean. It's been ignored for 50 years! Water board didn't even know it was there.

Think about why they won’t let you have it in your house - you risk having the street’s shit pouring into your kitchen. There’s a reason they’re outside.

Can it not be moved? (We’ve just moved one to make an extension work.)

Can't move it cos it flows under next door's conservatory. The water goes from us down to next door. We're slightly higher up.

Just looked at houses for sale. Currently 2 with 4 bedrooms in our area in our price range, and one is pushing it. Ffs.i don't even want to move. I love our close and our neighbours.

We've got one - similar sound situation, built over more than 40 years ago. We discovered it when we had our kitchen done. It has been covered with a flimsy bit of ply. We covered over it again. There are access points either side of it outside the footprints of the houses.

Similar sounding

There's no access point outside the footprint.
There's a junction between our house and the neighbours where the foulwater runs into. If it needed to be rodded, you couldn't clear it through next door's.

Dh wants to argue that if they didn't even know where tf it even was, it can't be that desperate and can we just allow them access through the house is necessary?

Think about why they won’t let you have it in your house - you risk having the street’s shit pouring into your kitchen. There’s a reason they’re outside.

We have a manhole cover in our downstairs lobby. However, it's our manhole

My sister had a manhole outside her back door that was shared with neighbours. The lid used to blow off every time there was a bad thunderstorm.

if ever something went wrong elsewhere along the sewer line the sewerage company could literally knock your extension down
my dd has just had their sewer pipe which came from next door routed round after permission from the company - I think it cost less than a thousand - they now have a lovely big extension
Ring up the water company again & I think they may need to come out & check
Please remember sewer pipes can be rat highways - would you want that in your house?

They wouldn't knock it down unless there was no other way of accessing it.

if the drain & its pipe ran in the centre of a house they would - as I said if there was a problem with the pipe inside the house & you had not asked permission first (we had a conversation with a solicitor about this, he warned us of the possibility - we chose not to buy the house with the extension)

& I said could not would

They came and checked a fortnight ago, well, they came to look for the drains as the council doesn't have any plans. Think housing estates in the 70s were thrown up.
I don't understand why they can't re route it.
It runs right through the middle of proposed ext. We'd have to move drain outside the ext, and put a junction under our house that connects to next door's sewer. It's the junction that our architect reckons won't be allowed.

@Shitpipe

There's no access point outside the footprint. There's a junction between our house and the neighbours where the foulwater runs into. If it needed to be rodded, you couldn't clear it through next door's.

Dh wants to argue that if they didn't even know where tf it even was, it can't be that desperate and can we just allow them access through the house is necessary?

When you come to submit a Building Regulation application, Building Control have a duty to notify the water company. Building Control will not approve or sign off the works without a Build Over Agreement in place.

Until recently, these will all have been private sewers, only came under the sewerage providers remit in 2011. Water companies won’t regularly inspect and will only get involved if there’s a problem.

Are you “upstream” or “downstream” of your neighbours? If upstream, and no connections beyond you, is it possible to create a new connection to the main sewer and have the problematic one severed? Runoff from rooves etc could go to soak away rather than the combined.

www.ofwat.gov.uk/publications/transfer-of-private-sewers/

My relatives have just done this.
The drain ran along the back of the houses and under where the new extension was to go.
They had to get a build over agreement- move the man hole so the drain could be accessed from outside and replace the old clay pipes with new modern ones. I think there had to be lintels over the drain where the foundations crossed over the pipe.
It cost extra, but not ridiculously so.

Can't do that cos there's a dog leg to join the current drain. I'm reporting what dh tells me. I've had a hell of a week in work and came home to this. Our house needs work doing but we've been holding off cos of extension. Sick of living like this.

We're in the middle. Attached to the downstream house but linked to the upstream.

When we bought our house we didn't realise that the kitchen extension had been built over the manhole . It was our neighbour who pointed it out a few years ago when their was a blockage at his house. I've no idea but assume the right permissions were granted but from reading what people have written it sounds like maybe they weren't.

We built our conservatory over a drain with a trapdoor on top. But we didn't need planning so water board were not statutory consultees.

The rules changed in 2011 which is why some people have manhole covers inside their houses (built pre 2011) and why the water companies would let you do that now (because we are post 2011).
You can re-route the line, but every change of direction needs a new manhole cover, or change the Dwight of your extension.
Signed
The bitter voice of a householder who has this exact problem.

I chose not to move, but had to lose a huge chunk of my plans.

Dwight = footprint

Yeah, we'd be moving one drain already. That would go under the new kitchen. This manhole would go under the new lounge/ chill out bit. But we're not allowed. Like a pp we could alter our plans to lose the chill out bit , but that would leave us with less light in the house and a random, dark strip of garden. It wouldn't be the house we want.

Next question then: how worthwhile is a new kitchen and boiler before we put house up? House is tatty cos we've been expecting to gut it. Kitchen was dated 15 years ago when we moved in. Doors falling off wardrobes.

Sorry my post was confusing because of all the typos!

You are not allowed to create a building structure over or incorporating manholes inside.
Before 2011 you were allowed to do this.
Now you are not - the rules have changed.

This is why some people think you still can build over manhole covers, as they are not aware of the fairly recent change in policy.

You will have to change your design of your extension - or find a way of re-routing the sewer (not usually possible to do this sensibly) - it's really frustrating - I've been where you are! Nothing you can do.