Is there an answer to this downstairs toilet conundrum (with diagram?)

[ShowOfHands]

We really need a downstairs toilet. One preteen and one teen, two adults and an upstairs bathroom is manageable but a second, downstairs toilet would make life easier and possibly add value. However, I also have three relatives with mobility issues and the stairs are becoming impossible for them which means they can't visit.

We originally quoted up for a small extension from the back door out to the kitchen window which is big enough for a toilet and sink but it's ££ and financially, not the best choice as we wouldn't add the value compared to the cost.

Every builder (and MN!) suggested converting the cupboard under the stairs as a cheaper and quicker option but the builders have all said we would have to brick up the back door and incorporate the back vestibule/hall into the toilet because just the space under the stairs wouldn't meet building regs. The problem is that it would mean the toilet door is off the dining room which makes me deeply uncomfortable.

I don't want to do it if when we come to sell, it puts people off and it's as weird an idea as it feels but we really want a downstairs toilet so that my family can visit and we can have a wee when the main bathroom is occupied.

Have I missed an obvious solution? Other than moving of course.

How about a garden room with en suite?

I'd do an extension large enough to fit your washing machine in too.

Is your kitchen new? Are you going to change it?
could you play around with the bit nearest the garden & put the loo there & than open plan the kitchen tot he conservatory garden room & use the under stairs area for kitchen storage as well?

alternatively a "dunny" in the garden!

I don’t know how big your living room is or the window at the back of the room but could you put a doorway off the back hall into the back righthand corner of the living room and put a small loo in there? Our downstairs loo is about 1.2m x80cm so you wouldn’t need to lose much space and the door could open out into the back hallway.

What about one of these spaces?

Something like this for the blue option. Might be out of budget 😬

if you put the loo under the stairs with a door onto the dining room, then you could have a fabric screen / room divider in front of the door to make it feel more like a separate space

these are ridiculously expensive but give you an idea
www.telegraph.co.uk/interiors/home/best-room-dividers/

I’d have thought you could easily fit a toilet under the highest stairs, with the door opening into the vestibule (perhaps a concertina door).

A finger tip basin on the side wall doesn’t take up any more room than you already need for a toilet, and the toilet can be under a sloped ceiling as long as there’s standing room in front of it.

It wouldn’t fit a wheelchair but is still better for a mobility impaired visitor than having no toilet at all downstairs. Is it the case that you could fit it in but it would just not meet building regs? I am not sure of the consequences of that.

Bricking off the back door and having a toilet door in the dining room sounds a bit extreme to me. Yes if you had a wheelchair user living there it’s not such a big deal, but for the occasional visitor no.

Maybe you could put the toilet door in the dining room and then when you have the visitors who need to use that downstairs loo, you could make a point of serving meals in the conservatory or lounge and not using the dining room? Other visitors need not know it’s a toilet at all, and could always just use the upstairs one.

So where will your new back door be? If the old one is bricked up and turned into a window to the new loo.

It's not idea but, it's a bigger space and the loo will I assume sit under the stairs area as you naturally sit down and a lower ceiling height works. So someone on the loo will go in and turn left if I'm interpreting this correctly?
You will need decent soundproofing a fan (for winter) and will have a window in any case.
Aside from frail relatives most people will take themselves off to a discreet loo upstairs out of sheer self consciousness if invited to do so from the outset.
Still don't get how you will access the garden as that's a fire regs issue too.

yes, I was going to suggest the plan that Gigi suggested. A small lean-to, accessed under the stairs.

I have no idea if it’s actually possible but could you take out the current stairs and put in a floating style staircase that turns a corner and starts in the dining room. Then use the old stair and hall space for bathroom

Morning. I'm going to measure dimensions this morning before work and I'll mark the waste.

@gigi556 the blue plan you've marked was our original costed plan described in my op but with the back door used to enter the new toilet extension. But it's too costly really.

@TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams there's a back door from the conservatory/garden room. We don't use the back door off the hall at all. I've opened it once. That door opens into my veg patch whereas the the conservatory opens onto the patio, lawn and flowers. The garden wraps round the entire house except for the lounge (semi detached).

I do really like some of these ideas but moving stairs and extending to include a utility is too expensive.

The builders have confirmed that just using the understairs is a building regs issue and will affect the sale when the time comes.

I do love the screens. My cat would be up one like lightning or scratching it until it gave up and moved out.

I've spent the best part of 13 years trying to work out how to relocate the downstairs loo as it's currently slightly off the kitchen so is unusable for guests. I've even imagined knocking down the house to redesign it.......!

Honestly, I think you'll spend more money than you want to (which is the key rather than the absolute cost) and will end up with something poky which you don't really like, won't be that easy to use for your relatives and won't add to resale. I'd either have more of a look at changing layouts with the conservatory/kitchen ............. or save you money and leave it. Is a stair lift (not the loveliest of things I know) an answer for the relatives?

is there space to build a cloaks cupboard in between the kitchen and dining room. would reduce the open plan feel but add in somewhere to keep your coats and then walk through to the toilet

I kind of agree with PP that it seems impossible. And let me add that I currently live with a door to our bathroom right next to wear we eat and I hate it. But I rent and this was the only flat big enough that became available at a time when we were sort of desperate, so here we are.

This is my only wild idea: I live in Sweden and am not raised with dining rooms as a necessity. I see your dining room is one big space with your kitchen, so a very large kitchen diner, essentially. I think I would have looked at changing the layout of that space. It looks large enough? . But I can't see a great solution off-hand that keeps a good flow of light, possibly Titchy had the best idea there though! If the kitchen area was narrower, more like a narrow U shape, there would be space beside the kitchen for a rectangular area where a loo could be fitted. I'd put a utility room first as a "buffert".

I think someone already suggested this... can you extent the small hallway slightly and come out into the dining room a bit and have the door on the inside of hall? That way you turn a corner to the toilet and it feels like it's not quite right into the dining room?

We cant afford to lose internal space.

@PigletJohn I've marked the manhole in purple with the waste running off it. Dimensions are from when we bought the house and remain unchanged.

Green is lawn, yellow is veg patch, red is driveway and black is patio. I haven't marked the garage, playhouse, greenhouse or shed as they're not near the house.

We've got another builder coming today to revisit the extension from the back door idea.

Is the conservatory big enough to block off a corner and create a loo there?

Is it a formal dining room or is it one big kitchen/dining space? My DM has a loo off the dining area of her kitchen diner and it's absolutely fine. Like you it's the only place that she could put it.
You're only actually eating for a short period every day and you don't use the loo in that time. I don't think anyone would want to make a smell during meal times with other people around so I wouldn't worry about it.
A downstairs loo will be useful and that's where it fits. Maybe have a weighted door so it swings shut and no one can leave it wide open.

I do think you're being over-anxious about this, OP. It's no big deal, and not worth messing around with your house for. You can put a fan in.

Can you extend the kitchen cupboards to - to fake build a door into the space so it looks like part of the kitchen

So you enter the cupboard door into another door for the toilet and block up the outside door

I’ll see if I can draw it

I hope that makes sense

Would this loo with a combined sink work?
www.victorianplumbing.co.uk/seattle-combined-two-in-one-wash-basin-toilet?campaign=googlebase&gclid=Cj0KCQiAtqL-BRC0ARIsAF4K3WF4tG0PrWPkaGmQNI4RsgIyQdzedMTFzjSQ4sU2LZKsA-w1At7y08waAkPFEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds