Is there an answer to this downstairs toilet conundrum (with diagram?)

[ShowOfHands]

We really need a downstairs toilet. One preteen and one teen, two adults and an upstairs bathroom is manageable but a second, downstairs toilet would make life easier and possibly add value. However, I also have three relatives with mobility issues and the stairs are becoming impossible for them which means they can't visit.

We originally quoted up for a small extension from the back door out to the kitchen window which is big enough for a toilet and sink but it's ££ and financially, not the best choice as we wouldn't add the value compared to the cost.

Every builder (and MN!) suggested converting the cupboard under the stairs as a cheaper and quicker option but the builders have all said we would have to brick up the back door and incorporate the back vestibule/hall into the toilet because just the space under the stairs wouldn't meet building regs. The problem is that it would mean the toilet door is off the dining room which makes me deeply uncomfortable.

I don't want to do it if when we come to sell, it puts people off and it's as weird an idea as it feels but we really want a downstairs toilet so that my family can visit and we can have a wee when the main bathroom is occupied.

Have I missed an obvious solution? Other than moving of course.

Hi, I get not having the door opening into the dining room, could you not have the dining room side bricked up/reinforced as necessary and access the cloakroom via the lounge instead?

@FamilyOfAliens

If so then the loo would have to be accessed either off the living room or off the dining room. I don’t personally have an issue with that.

I would. Especially if someone went to the toilet in the middle of dinner

We wouldn't do that as a matter of course obviously.

Ah I see it differently now with that image. Yeah I personally wouldn't like a toilet door opening into the dining room or lounge.

I agree OP I wouldn’t like the door opening into the dining room either. Living room less bad but still not great. Would it be really ugly to build a mini vestibule into the dining room so at least there was more space/doors/ sound proofing between the two rooms? Or is there not space?

I think if it's originally there, it's less of an issue. The adding it now and selling it is what we worry about.

I doubt ours was originally there. But the door to it is off the hallway like most 1930s semis, so it’s a good arrangement.

Chop off a section of the dining room to make a hallway - walls in black. Door from new hall to dining room/kitchen and to new loo. Downstairs loo in red.

Can your dining room afford to lose width?

@minipie

Ok seen the floorplan, yes your stairs are sandwiched. Then the only option is to have the loo accessed from the sitting room or from the dining room.

I’m slightly surprised however that it’s so expensive to build a small lean to extension for a loo, especially since that would work better with your soil pipe location (based on where the upstairs loo is). Building the loo under the stairs is going to involve a fair bit of work in knocking through to the vestibule, changing door to window and most of all, routing a soil pipe through the house to the under stairs space. Maybe check costs with another builder?

No knocking through required really. Just widening an existing doorway.

We've had 7 builders round. They all said to convert indoors, not outside.

I can’t see a cheap solution.

An idea might be to turn the conservatory into a proper room (roof, replace glass panels etc) and reconfigure from there to install a loo.

I agree it’s not ideal if you had a choice.
But it’s not as if you’re putting a loo in the corner of the dining room with a curtain around it.
Put a proper fire door in (I read that from @pigletjohn on another thread about loos) if you’re worried about noises / smells.
And if you need an extra loo for practical reasons then that trumps (pardon the pun!) the location issue.
Plus lots of old houses have loos directly off kitchens, those people manage.
I think it’ll be fine, and when it comes to resale people will be grateful just to have an extra loo.

Could the understairs remain a cupboard with through access to the toilet which would probably need a small extension for size.
Then there would be two doors between dining room and toilet.
You you afford a slightly bigger extension and have either a downstairs shower room or utility with toilet, access through under stair storage?

As far as I understand it, you need to follow building regs but can still put up a temporary partition wall afterwards (like people do with bedrooms).

A lot of the building regs area is for access in a wheelchair. Could you put the toilet and sink in the under stair area and then put a temporary wall with a sliding door roughly where the cupboard wall/door is now, ie the top of your drawing. That way the temporary toilet door opens into the back hall, and you keep the back door.

Not sure about the details of building regs in England though. We made scale cut outs of all the access areas and toilet etc and tried lots of arrangements.

We can't lose the dining room width and accessing off the lounge would present myriad costly issues too.

I think it's just not possible.

Converting the conservatory to a proper room plus loo and utility room would add value. Conservatories are unpopular with a lot of people these days. If I bought a house with one, I'd pull it down and extend.

The only way I can see that space working without having a door into the dining room or sitting room is to have a 'garden' loo - so the access is from outside (the original back door) with a new back door from the kitchen with a porch outside giving access to the new loo and the garden. Unless I've misinterpreted the whole issue; apologies if that's the case.

Bigger extension running further up the side of the kitchen, toilet door opens onto enlarged kitchen/utility room.

I agree Op, I think It’s not possible and also the lack of proper back door would also put me off as a buyer. I wouldn’t like to have to go through the conservatory all the time with rubbish and for garden access etc.

Personally I think, if it would improve life, then just do the extension and count it as value added to life, rather than the house...

My in-laws house has the downstairs loo off the dining room and I hate it. Every family meal even Christmas gets interrupted by fart noises and flushing. It's unpleasant. Please try to avoid this. I certainly wouldn't buy a house that had that setup.

Please can you expand your diagram to show the whole of the downstairs layout (including indicating where the foot of the stairs is which isn't clear in your diagram) to help ideas for alternatives to flow.

Ok so here’s an option for you.

As I understand it, you can physically squeeze in a downstairs loo under the stairs alone (thus preserving two doors) but that wouldn’t meet building regs due to the need for it to be more spacious and wheelchair accessible. Right?

If so, it may be possible to build the loo in a way that meets building regs BUT once building regs officers have signed off, you then add an extra door across the loo space so that you have your separation. (You would need to make sure the loo is laid out in a way that lets you do this. Eg loo under the stairs and sink in the vestibule with space left for a door between them. No need to block up the back door).

When it comes to selling however, you would strictly speaking need to remove the extra door, so the house is building regs compliant. In the meantime however you get your two doors.

Bonus of doing it this way is that if any of your relatives with mobility issues end up with a wheelchair/walker, you can remove the extra door and they can access the loo.

How about blocking up the back door and moving it into the kitchen? Can you afford to lose a cupboard?

Or block up the back door and put french doors in the lounge?

Could you lose the slice of the dining room at the hall end of the house? Put the loo there, walled off from the dining room and enter from the hallway?

can you draw the downstairs floorplan (including conservatory and back yard) with dimensions, please. Show where the bathroom soil pipe is, and any manholes.

If you have frail relations I think you ought to include sufficient access for a wheelchair and assistant.

@PigletJohn

can you draw the downstairs floorplan (including conservatory and back yard) with dimensions, please. Show where the bathroom soil pipe is, and any manholes.

If you have frail relations I think you ought to include sufficient access for a wheelchair and assistant.

I can try and do this later (about to go into a work meeting).

The conservatory is about to be converted into a garden room so won't be a conservatory for much longer. We ideally want to do all building works at the same time.

If I put dimensions in, it might help explain things and will rule out some stuff too which make sense in theory.

I would seriously consider knocking down the conservatory and putting in a proper extension with utility and wetroom.

Could you put the toilet under the stairs and the sink in the vestibule?

Take door off for building regs and back on once signed off.

Then toilet is removed from dining room and you get to keep back door.