No building regs - and long crack

[NCHouseBuy]

Hi all - I'm buying a semi with an L shape open plan living, dining and kitchen. It is absoutely lovely, I'm at the last stages, have the mortgage, about to exchange 🥳...turns out it doesn't have building regs 🤦‍♀️ and I've now found a fine lateral crack running right across the middle of the opened living/diner. I've found more cracks in the bathroom ceiling upstairs - right above that running downstairs.

Help me - how bad is this? Is there any hope this is just the house settling (and therefore is it worth paying to get a structural engineet in to look at it)? Or is this - to those in the know - a lost cause?

Thanks everyone...argh🤦‍♀️

Have you not had any survey done? You can get a chartered surveyor to do one who will look at everything. They usually defer to a structural engineer for cracks though. No BR approval is a no no. You need to have it surveyed to see if it’s structurally sound. If walls have been taken out and insufficient attention paid to supporting the floor above and deflecting it’s weight into the ground via a RSJ, there could well be problems. You need to know exactly what’s causing the cracks. What is the cost of repairs and who is going to do them. If there is a problem, what will the vendors do? Don’t exchange. How did you find out there was no BR approval?

I had a RICS report done (he emphasised we need building regs) and solicitor then picked up the lack of building regs. They've been worth their weight in gold! We have an indemnity policy for no regs...but what does that really cover? The cost of fighting the council to avoid doing work which may actually need to be done? It doesnt seem to cover actually doing the work?

I really like the house I'm a bit gutted actually but... 🤔 would a structural surveyor be able to tell anything from looking at it or would they need to rip the walls/ceiling open?

How old is the extension? Did they need / get PP?

A structural surveyor will tell you whether it's worth proceeding or whether you need a further investigation. Sorry. But honestly if the extension is about to fall away you'll be glad you walked away.

@JamMakingWannaBe

How old is the extension? Did they need / get PP?

It's over 4 years old, that's all that is known (from looking at for sale on zoopla). Don't know about PP, nothing has come through on searches though so I'm guessing no planning permission?

I doubt the vendors would want their walls opened - is there any way for a structural engineer to get comfort that work has been performed correctly and/or the house isn't going to fall in, without opening it up?

There's no excuse not to have BR on a 4 yo extension. Proceed with caution.

You basically have no idea:

• how deep the foundations are and what they are made of
• if an RJS was required and IF one was installed is it to the right spec / calculations
• that electrics and plumbing was done to current regs
• what insulation you have and if it's up to current specs

The current owner needs to be sorting this out, not you - and certainly not after you've bought it.

Is it possible for a structrual engineer to assess whether a house is likely to fall down, by eye? Or would they need to open holes? I'm just trying to work out whether this is doable or insurmountable?

I have an approved mortgage on this house (🤦‍♀️ again) does anyone know if it can be "ported" to another purchase (subject to valuation) or will I need to go through the full application process again?

Thanks everyone so far.

Ask the seller if they have any photos of the building work that was done, I always take photos of any structural work that can’t be seen after it’s finished .

@Chumleymouse

Ask the seller if they have any photos of the building work that was done, I always take photos of any structural work that can’t be seen after it’s finished .

The bought the house after the work was done so unfortunately they have no records of it. It's been listed a few times over the years. I was wondering whether it was just a matter of price, now I'm thinking maybe this is why - people have walked away.

You need to know as much information as possible before making what will likely be one of the biggest purchases of your lifetime. A surveyor will likely cost around £800 depending on where you live. That's invaluable peace of mind.

As to your mortgage offer, your lender have decided that they're prepared to lend to you up to a certain amount but they will also need to be satisfied that any new property is a sound investment for them - so you'll have to go back through the process of a valuation etc. The upside is that this will restart the clock as mortgage offers expire after 6 months.

The biggest issue is likely to be that if you buy this house, your insurance won’t cover this issue. So if it does become a problem you will have to pay to remedy it. Worst case - you could have a worthless asset on your hands.

Did the surveyor not pick up the cracks? I would talk to him in the first instance. Do you have any photos? Some cracks can just be settling or thermal, especially around an RSJ, but I would really expect them to be hairline.

You need to get a definitive answer on the age of the extension and the appropriate sign off. Without building regs I probably wouldn’t to near it to be honest. and this is all the vendor’s issue - they need to sort it out.

It sounds as if the extension is open plan to the rest of the house - so they've removed part of the original rear wall - which will obviously be structural. I wouldn't touch that unless there was a building certificate confirming the RSJ was of the right spec.

I don't know whether a full structural would be enough without digging pilot holes to check the foundations, or into the ceiling where the RSJ would be. But if other sales have fallen through it sounds as if the vendors should be aware of the issue and prepared to agree. Tbh it this has been an issue with previous buyers they should have arranged it themselves.

Did the surveyor not pick up the cracks?

The ones upstairs yes. He said they appeared to be cosmestic plaster cracks. Downstairs no - but it's a very fine long crack and I had to look pretty hard with a torch to see it - but it's very much there once you see it, and runs all the way along the line an original wall would have run.

titchy

No, sorry, there's no extension, its an L shape open plan within the original foot print of the house - it looks like two walls removed, one between front room and rear dining room, and another between that rear dining room and the kitchen. So the entire thing (other than hall/stairs) is open.

I could see a large beam running along the ceiling between the front room/dining room - but nothing between dining and kitchen. That's where the crack runs.

I wouldn't touch it. As pp have stated, building control would want to inspect in stages. While things are open and not sealed. To confirm it's done properly. Very difficult to do retrospectively. Plus, building regs may have changed since the work was done, making it harder to sign off.

Building control are your friend. It is not expensive. If you do it at the time.

Dodgy but if the morgage survey approved it, sounds like they don't see it as suspect.

As pp said, banks are usually careful not to lend without BG, but it sounds like they've approved without it, so the surveyor must have been happy with it?

I think the bank did a desk valuation on the mortgage - no visit. Would I be able to get buildings insurance on this, with no regs on recent work? That's assuming a structrual engineer gives it an "ok"?

I'm trying to figure out how hopeless this is (and how hard to be searching for another house in the mean time).

We recently went through something similar. We pulled out as the vendors weren't willing to get retrospective building regs for the removal of a load bearing wall which had no building regs (work carried out within the last 4-5 years). A few days later we got a call saying they'd changed their minds and they started the process. In only took about 2 weeks in total to get the retrospective regs from the council.

We weren't willing to accept an indemnity policy as the work had only been done in the last few years and there had been settlement in the area so we wanted to know for certain it had been done to building regs. We also didn't want the hassle of dealing with it if we ever had to sell.

FManc

Did you ever have a structrual engineer look at it? What did retrospective regs involve i.e. did the council rubber stamp the regs or was there some degree of assessment as to structrual integrity? Did they have to open the wall/ceiling?

I misread your OP and thought this was an extension. If it's internal works they won't have needed PP but it still does not excuse the lack of BR.
SOMEONE must know what builder was involved. I can't believe there's NO receipts etc for a 4 yo conversion, especially if the house has sold several times in that period. Don't buy the house based on my opinion but a hairline crack, you need to look for very closely with a torch, sounds a much less serious problem than your original post suggests. I have a 5 yo extension built to BR and I have settlement cracks bigger than that.

OP, did you ask the vendors if they would agree to getting retrospective BG? I think they will have to anyway - yes, some holes would need to be drilled but that's not as bad as not being able to sell the house!

It can take a few weeks but as pp said may only take two weeks. It costs a bit but again, they'll be able to sell. At leats they know your mortgage is approved - with new buyers it may not be if there is a survey. So they'd be interested in keping you as a buyer.

JamMakingWannaBe
They used the local solictors who aren't terribly flash from what I've seen, so I wouldn't be surprised if the whole thing was just missed - especially if they didn't get a full building survey.

I could see it without the torch, but it looked like a pencil line - until I got the torch on it. I really hope an engineer has a look at it and tells me I'm being silly and to buy it!

CatAndHisKit
That's a good point - I'm ready to exchange today. No I didn't ask for retrospective BGs, the solicitors were pushing for an indemnity policy, which I was fine with as long as there are no apparent structural issues...so gutted to find the cracks.

@NCHouseBuy

FManc

Did you ever have a structrual engineer look at it? What did retrospective regs involve i.e. did the council rubber stamp the regs or was there some degree of assessment as to structrual integrity? Did they have to open the wall/ceiling?

@NCHouseBuy

No we didn't really need to have a structural engineer look at it. We had a full building survey carried out which was very thorough by our surveyor. We spoke to him about the issue and he basically said we'd be stupid not to push for retrospective building regulations. He wasn't actually worried about the settlement if it had been done to full regs (there wasn't signs of ongoing movement, no cracks etc).

From what I gather the council made 2 visits. An initial inspection which was then followed by a more in-depth one where they had to open a small area of plasterwork to expose the RSJ. I don't think it was too messy but I'm not 100% sure. The vendors still had all the structural calculations/paperwork the engineers had used to show the council which helped I think (they'll ask to see this anyhow).

*BRs