SE London house prices

[JonahDay]

Me and my family are returning to London after a long time as ex pats. We are planning to return in time for our DC to start the new school year next September and we have secured places at a school for them already.
Due to Covid we have not been able to come back to the U.K. as planned to house hunt. We have family members who are going to help us instead (viewing on our behalf if we can convince agents to let them). We would prefer to come straight into a house we own rather than have to rent and move twice - we were planning on doing that but the stamp duty break plus having school nailed down is putting us off.

Due to family connections and job locations (and the school for DC, again we have a personal connection to the school) we are looking in the Greenwich/ Blackheath/ Lee area but I am finding the pricing really difficult to work out - I thought London priced pretty much on sq ft but there seems to be quite large price differences along the same street even.

Also, the Rightmove sold price gadget doesn't update regularly enough for us to be able to see what houses have sold for more recently after the first wave of Covid.

For example (one of these is under offer already and the other we have only viewed online, it is over our budget at that price, so this is only an example, it isn't even our preferred location) what is the £200k difference between these two? The kitchen extension? Would it cost that much to extend?

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-96094358.html

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-86037451.html

Does anyone know the area well to comment? Is it a good area? We have been told to go more toward the Blackheath train station area but very little comes up there on budget.

@Needmoresleep not nit the listed ones pf course. I mean modernise inside, maybe make more sense with the layout, by opening kitchen with wide french doors into reception. I.e. in one of the flats I saw the bathroom made in the reception room 🤦🏼‍♀️ And flat goes for 600k. It makes just no sense to me. So even though I might struggle to find one which is made sensibly I would like to be able to make changes myself. But it seems that even with share of freehold it can be difficult in these places.

@JoJoSM2 and @Needmoresleep thank you so so much with your advices. Such an eye opener. I feel like it might be too problematic. My partner did say to me I am being a bit deluded for what can be done in these flats 🤭😁 My main issue I come across in conversion flats is the kitchen being on the other side of flat from reception. And some have only one bathroom. So yeah it seems so that my dream for Victorian/Georgian house living paddling away. 😭

I'm not convinced your relative is steering you in the right direction @JonahDay! Even though you've already secured a private school place, you'll find the DLR is accessible from places other than Blackheath or Greenwich. SE13 has some fabulous properties, especially around Lewisham Park and Belmont Hill as does SE12 - Handen Road, Micheldever Road etc. as does SE4 (Hilly Fields, Vicars Hill). Lewisham DLR is an easy walk from any of those and you'll get a lot more house for your money. Traffic around Blackheath and Greenwich Park is fairly dire at the best of times as Shooters Hill Road is used to carry all the Kent traffic in and out of London each day so it's worth being aware of that.

Even if it makes sense to you, it is always difficult to interfere with the structure of a Victorian building.

Which is why the first property in the OP costs £200,000 more than the second.

Try thinking of it as a neighbour. Someone comes in an intends to change the load bearing on century old walls. Plus give you months of noise, dust and vibration. Your instinct would be to oppose.

If it is a partition wall, not a load bearing wall, there should not be a problem. However any weird layout is probably down to the constraints of the existing building. Ie perhaps the bathroom had to be where it is because of the position of the soil pipe.

Old buildings need to be respected. They have stood the test of time and will probably be there when more recent ones have gone. But there are issues.

My guess is that you are not from the UK. I have a couple of sets of tenants who are from Eastern Europe, who I get on really well now, but who initially complained a lot. My response was to suggest that they asked English colleagues/neighbours/school run friends whether some things were normal in the UK. And yes, drafty houses, which struggle to get warm on the coldest day of the year (honestly my properties are no worse that others, actually probably better), single hot and cold taps and so on.

So short advice. Spend your money on getting the best property. You do NOT want the expense and hassle of major works. More or less the same advice being given to OP.

@Needmoresleep you guessed right I am not from UK, my partner is British, so he has more realistic view than I do. And he does suggest that buying a house is much better option if we want to make it reasonably lovely.

I am all four, for respecting old buildings, I love them so much, more than new builds. And I would be the last person to mess up with the exterior, because I think they look absolutely magnificent as they are.

Yes, as of neighbours we are extremely respectful people and do know it probably could cause some issues as well. Therefore we would try and get everything complete in one go rather than little by little.

My main concern that many of them inside are not very suited for modern living and could benefit from some improvements. Not talking about starting to knock off all the walls possible, but maybe open kitchen into receptions with double french doors and adding one more bathroom. But as you mentioned before it seems that even such an improvements can be off limits, which puts a big constraint of what can be achieved.

Note also that @'ing people who are already on a thread is a bit of an irritant.

Getting work done in any not-self-contained building at the moment is an issue. Our new neighbours are busy turning their Georgian house into a modern paradise. Its fine fro them as they have been able to retreat to the country but a nightmare for their neighbours as the 1-2 months has turned into seven and counting. (And the planning they applied for after starting the works was not approved, so they have had to scale back their ideas considerably. )

We have raised our eyebrows a little, as we see their expensive modern sleek grey kitchen and metro tiles being delivered, as even in interiors there are fashions. Their kitchen is likely to date much more quickly that our 35 year old solidly built wooden units.

Ditto "modern living". If this is not going to be your "forever home" be careful about what you do. You may like a kitchen connected to the living room but not everyone does, and it is as easy to take value away from a property as to add it. Neighbours are knocking through. Again I wonder. It is perfectly possible that whoever buys will want to reinstate a Georgian interior. Home working, for example, has caused a reappraisal of the benefits of a separate kitchen.

My East European tenants now agree. There is a lot wrong with use of space and insulation in Victorian houses, but lots to love as well. Houses are virtually unknown where they come from, and they enjoy having their own front door in a leafy residential street, and a small back yard as well as lots of green space nearby. Their first rental property was a modern flat probably reflecting what they were used to. They claim to be very happy they moved, even though it has meant changes to the way they live.

I am new on mumsnet, so just wanted to make sure that messages do not get lost in the tread as to whom I am replying to. :) But if that's the rule here I will keep it in mind, thanks for heads up.

As of Interior, the reason I like these houses is, because they still have a lot of features of the original interiors. Which means I would want to reinstate more of the classic features rather than making it completely modern flat. And opening kitchen with the doors means that it can be closed if one wishes for kitchen to be separate. Simply what I am noticing that a lot of these flats have been converted for a quick buck with no consideration that bathroom should not be entered via reception. And I really do not think that any British person thinks it is okay. A lot of my British colleagues who work in the City, I would dare to say majority, live outside of London in massive houses, because they find London value for money on the properties highly unrealistic. However, I am still clinging onto idea that it isn't that bad. :)

My ideal for these houses would be classic interior with contemporary/modern furniture

I thought I will add just as an example link to what interior I have in mind for ruff idea. Please do not assume that I would want to make it into something completely different, because if that would be the case then I would just go onto looking for those new builds.

inspirationdesignbooks.com/blog/style/what-is-modern-classic-style-in-interior-design/

We do know that more expensive refurbish in many cases will be at a loss and write off when time come to sell, but we enjoy things that we like, which means we do not mind spending a bit extra on the interior. Even mortgage wise, we could stretch out to more expensive property, because can get higher mortgage than we are looking to take on, but we do not want to loose the freedom of having ability and cash to do more things than just pay the mortgage. More expensive house = more space to fill in, more work to be done.

Re: subway titles is a crime against the stylish interior in my opinion.

And so sorry to hear your neighbours are so inconsiderate, it must be a nightmare. We are renting flat around here and unfortunately have very noisy neighbours upstairs. Not only kids stomping all day everyday (which is something that we consider expected, it's a flat and kids probably find these lock-downs difficult), but to top it up they run on a treadmill on a regular basis. So our flat underneath, literally is shaking from the vibrations.

Seriously I think your DH is right. There are lots of advantages in a house over a flat.

There are also specific problems with conversion flats as opposed to purpose built.

It is all about choice. Buying/selling is expensive and it is common to buy as much house as you can afford, and put off the rest until you are used to the property and have the money. Especially if it means that you can jump a rung of the ladder. That said the "Englishman's home is his castle" reflects a specific cultural approach. So we bought 20 years ago and are still waiting for the money to do our house up. (By chance we have 35 year old metro tiles in our kitchen, but luckily they and the shaker look doors seem to have come back into fashion.)

I would allow myself to assume that 35 year old subway tiles are much more attractive than then new ones. The same goes for herringbone flooring. I find so many people change it to brand new floors instead of trying to refurbish existing. It is probably one of the reasons why I am so drawn to these houses. Solidly built and just need some extra love.

But yes you are right, it is all about how far can one go to refurbish these flats and the house is probably better idea. Not only neighbours, but lease restrictions etc. We just can't really imagine putting our life on hold for the mortgage. But it is time for us to start collecting some equity, instead of renting. However, if the cost of living doubles it means that we have to change our lifestyle and lower our saving abilities, which might potentially make us miserable. And it is really difficult to strive for career advancement when you're just not happy. These are main reasons why we would rather go for something smaller and upsize later once careers advances further, rather than max out straight away. These are pretty much our thoughts.

We also have herringbone flooring, which dates back, I think, to the 1930s.....

It is useful to understand yourself and your priorities. We have a surprisingly high propensity to defer expenditure. Equally only you know what weight needs to be given to various factors when buying a property.

Good luck.

Aaaah it must look absolutely fantastic, re your herringbone flooring.

Thanks for all the help.

Just to add that after Grenfell I would avoid modern buildings. Cladding is still a nightmare.
You are safest with a house - an established house.