SE London house prices

[JonahDay]

Me and my family are returning to London after a long time as ex pats. We are planning to return in time for our DC to start the new school year next September and we have secured places at a school for them already.
Due to Covid we have not been able to come back to the U.K. as planned to house hunt. We have family members who are going to help us instead (viewing on our behalf if we can convince agents to let them). We would prefer to come straight into a house we own rather than have to rent and move twice - we were planning on doing that but the stamp duty break plus having school nailed down is putting us off.

Due to family connections and job locations (and the school for DC, again we have a personal connection to the school) we are looking in the Greenwich/ Blackheath/ Lee area but I am finding the pricing really difficult to work out - I thought London priced pretty much on sq ft but there seems to be quite large price differences along the same street even.

Also, the Rightmove sold price gadget doesn't update regularly enough for us to be able to see what houses have sold for more recently after the first wave of Covid.

For example (one of these is under offer already and the other we have only viewed online, it is over our budget at that price, so this is only an example, it isn't even our preferred location) what is the £200k difference between these two? The kitchen extension? Would it cost that much to extend?

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-96094358.html

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-86037451.html

Does anyone know the area well to comment? Is it a good area? We have been told to go more toward the Blackheath train station area but very little comes up there on budget.

Do people think the Maze Hill / Vanbrugh Hill side is better for transport than being in the village? I always assumed BV was easier but perhaps not? For getting to the Wharf and also into town...?

I do often think the BV shops are slightly overrated but I love the cafe culture. If it got a little Waitrose or an M&S food and a Boots there'd be no contest, but I don't think the residents go in for too mainly "chains" as it lowers the tone!

@Biden20 for Canary Wharf I’d say so as you’re only a stop or two for Greenwich DLR. Blackheath means going to Lewisham DLR so you’re a few stops back.

I’m in BV (on a road that everyone wants to live on) but was previously more between Blackheath and Lewisham and if I’m 100% honest - I actually preferred that location to this one as transport was better and had both types of shop - the village is lovely to wonder around but not really great if you need anything practical.

Maze Hill is good for transport. Trains from Maze Hill itself, or with more frequency from Greenwich. DLR and Riverboat at Cutty Sark. Bus or cycle along the river to the tube at North Greenwich. Foot tunnel for pedestrians and cyclists.

What I think will make a difference is that Maze Hill is only a couple of stops from Woolwich where you will soon be able to change for Crossrail and quick trips into central London and out to Heathrow and beyond.

Also if he likes cycling it really easy from maze hill to actually get all the way to CW - I’d reckon half an hour tops.

Its a reasonably level cycle ride into London. A lot of segregated cycle lanes are being put in.

Just another one saying that Foyle Road is a beautiful road in a lovely area. Like others I much preferred East Greenwich to Blackheath village for day-to-day life, more useful shops, less traffic, parking easy and people nice. There are some fantastic hidden gems around there- and the park and east Greenwich pleasuance are lovely. Plus you have the bars and farmers market in blackheath a walk away. On your specific question about pricing generally you are right that square footage makes a massive difference in London. However the two exceptions to this are a side return extension, which although it doesn’t add many square feet to the house makes a massive difference to the rear of the house in terms of how it looks and how it can be used, and is also incredibly expensive. In a high-end house like the one you linked to the answer is that yes you would probably be looking at close to £200,000 to get a decent side return with a high end finish, plus it is incredibly disruptive so you pay a premium not to live through it! The second is that you will also pay a bit of a premium where the house has an obvious high end finish. Like others have suggested if you want better value Hither Green (north of the railway) is also worth a look- Manor House gardens and shopping around the station are both excellent. Lots to do for kids too.

We have been looking in the same area for almost 2 years now trying to find the right property with a mixture of proximity to schools, stations and amenities as well as within a budget.It's really tough as if you want everything then the number of roads that satisfy those criteria is slim. We rent a house in west greenwich currently and know we love it around here.

For me, schools influence quiet a lot as traffic for the school run can be high in some areas so walking distance is ideal. Although that depends on if you need to get to an office by a certain time after etc etc.

Foyle road is nice and the houses at the top might have views and less noise from the blackwall tunnel approach. There is demand for houses in the Halstow school catchment area (which is tiny based on previous years) so that sometimes drives prices up to the east of Foyle road.

Bear in mind the seller also gets a say and it may link to how much they need to move. Floor space is similar but the 4 bed seems bigger until you ignore the cellar space.

So many things can influence the price, it really is about seeing them and negotiating for the one that feels best.

Can you look for a short term rental or a 3/6 month air bnb for example to give you an option of viewing?

Love the house @dreamingbohemian linked to. Wonder who the artist is.

Thank you everyone. It sounds like the area is good which is positive.

@dreamingbohemian I saw that house online, the garden is a too small for us plus the house would need a lot of money spent on it. Again though, that street makes no sense to me as there is a house along the road which is done and is £100k less SSTC (although it is smaller and doesn't have the potential to extend, I suppose) but if building work would be £250k + I am not sure you would get your money back on that but what do I know?!? I do wonder who the artist is too!

@mamabelle87 TWO YEARS?!? Is it that not much comes up for sale round there or the price point? I think we are on the cusp of being priced out of the whole area and renting for a long period of time would make a dent in our savings too.

My relative who is helping us seems to have completely unrealistic ideas of what we can afford and he seems to think everything goes for below asking price but I am not so sure. He wants to view the nice Foyle Rd one as he thinks we could get it for £1.35m but I think perhaps he is deluded after the comments on here.

Yes I'm also curious about the artist!

I agree with what @JoJoSM2 said above, in London you will usually have to compromise on either size or location -- it's pretty rare to get something in a good location, for the exact size you want, within budget (unless you have a gazillion dollars).

So the other advantage of renting for a bit is that it will help you figure out where you can compromise. Maybe you will find the traffic isn't that bad and you can live further from the school in a cheaper area, or that a smaller house is worth it to be next to such amazing green space.

If you PM me I can give you the details of our local estate agent, she lives in the area and is very straight-talking so can probably advise you well on whether what you want is feasible.

If you don’t already have schools etc lined up and really do want a larger garden you could get a lot more for your money by going a little further out.
Chislehurst offers a similar “village” type feel and you’re far more likely to get a decent garden.

Who knows about that Foyle Rd house. It’s still got the steep steps. Compared to the other house, it’s also attached on both sides and has a narrower footprint. Having said that, I’d be surprised if the vendors would need to go as low as 1.35 to get a buyer. I think your relative is being quite optimistic.

This conversation is strange to read. I went to school in Blackheath. I feel I know every inch of the Heath as I walked over it daily. Greenwich then had no cinema, no chains but one of the most fantastic secondhand markets for vinyl, film memorabilia and vintage clothes you could get. Every Sunday would be spent going through the stalls (few shops then) and the Blackheath bookshop was a venture into the unknown and mysterious - run by an older man who appeared to dislike customers.

Hither Green was so dodgy I wasn’t allowed to go on a train from that station on my own - and the now ‘nice’ part was the worst end. I didn’t like the old snobbery and fixed stereotypes of the area and still love Blackheath but something fundamental has been lost there. It’s coffee shops, charity shops and estate agents now - very little else of substance. The Ivy Brasserie is the best thing in a long time but it is in danger of losing that lovely quietness and villages feel.

@DonnaQuixotedelaManchester ooh I wonder if you went to the same school as I did. I would say though that blackheath hasn’t changed that much. Greenwich on the other hand is completely different.

That's so interesting @DonnaQuixotedelaManchester . Most of my neighbours have lived here for decades (I'm on one of the estates by the heath) I always wonder what they make of all the changes in the area.

Blackheath Bookshop is still there but it's an undercover Waterstones. Unless you mean the used bookshop next to the heath, which is still mysterious and has a cranky older man!

Access to transport, end of terrace, aspect of garden, many many things affect price per sq foot. I have never seen that as a major pricing factor, really, having bought 4 London properties over 30 years.

End of terrace or semi is highly desirable over mid terrace, if you ask me, and if I am spending £200k on a kitchen extension and finish, I want it to be my taste!

Hello,

I really don't think the Steep steps are that friendly and I think the house is just too expensive.

You could look towards lee, blackheath or even east Greenwich or west Greenwich.

In my view west Greenwich is better but can take a while to find a house.

Les which you can walk to can definitely be better for space.

Blackheath standard is nice but I think you can do better.

Your relative does not seem that deluded - check our recent prices for Humber road properties. Also check out Dinsdale road too.

I really do think you can get more bang for your buck.

Lee is worth a look too.

Even think about if you want to go somewhere like Beckenhem or Brockley.

Colfes is worth considering as a school.

Also have a look at Brookway SE3, and the cator estate!

We are too hunting in this area, but something less extravagant price wise 😊 as we are the couple and have no children yet, we are considering conversion flat more/less 100 sq.m. We are currently renting in Royal Standard area and love it so very much. We don’t mind moving around a bit, but would love to have everything on similar proximity, like heath, park, village. There are some on the market, but some are leasehold/freehold and I wonder how easy is to get permission to modernise them? Also, are they easy to sell afterwards? I would highly appreciate any advice if someone had an experience buying/living in one of those conversation flats? Is it even worth considering. But houses are so way too pricey for us here 😕 And we tried looking at some on Charlton side, but we dislike the area.

@Wanderergirl there are entire threads on leasehold/share of freehold flats on here or you could start a new one. Basically, you need to check the lease is long enough and there’s a sinking fund + check the schedule of works to make sure the building is well maintained.
Share of freehold is generally preferred but, again, it only works if there’s a management company in place or all the owners agree and pay up for repairs and maintenance.

With regards to permission to refurbish a property, you’ll need to read the lease to see what you’re allowed to do and what needs permission. Some freeholders are perfectly reasonable while others are a*holes and will want to charge you hundreds per room just to ‘consider’ what you want to do.

If you can stretch to one of those cheaper, small 60’s houses in the area, I’d do that and spare myself potential hassle and stress.

What do you mean by "modernise"?

Are you talking listed, which some in Blackheath will be? Or Conservation area, which will be shown on the council website?

I would be very wary of anything structural in a block of flats, ie knocking out parts of supporting walls or enlarging windows. It might be safe to do so, and just require additional support in the form of an RSJ, but the lease is likely to require you to get permission from the "freeholder", who will probably be either your neighbours in a share of freehold or a risk adverse/greedy block management company. You should also be aware that many leases on Victorian/Georgian conversions require carpets for sound proofing. (Generally a good thing unless you are top floor!) You won't be able to sell unless you have the right paperwork.

Listing can be a pain. Things like changing internal doors, or adding cornicing may require listed building consent. The Council Conservation Officer would be able to advise. There will be restrictions on what you can do on the outside in a conservation area, ie if you are changing windows you should aim for something that look like the original windows in the street. But most stuff, decoration, new bathroom, new kitchen is up to you. Just be conscious about difficult building works can be if you have newly wfh neighbours.

When looking, keep an eye out for the state of the communal areas: hallway, roof, possibly garden. Does it look as if these are being actively managed? It may be worth asking when the inside and outside were last decorated. Leases normally require 7-9 years. If things look OK residents normally want things to slide a bit longer, but if decoration is poor and there are no plans to do anything, this implies problems with management or decision making. In larger buildings, a new looking fire alarm system is a good sign. Regs have tightened up a lot since Grenfell, so proactive management will have checked and probably renewed their systems.

You’re extremely unlikely to be allowed to do anything with structural walls or windows (Other than replacing like for like. Definitely not changing their size to mess up the facade). You also wouldn’t be allowed to move a kitchen in a block, for example but might be possible in a conversion. With some leases, you will need permission to replace the kitchen, bathroom or flooring too.

I would say it would cost at least £200k to turn house A into house B. It’s not just a kitchen extension, they’ve clearly refurbished the whole house, new bathrooms, new decor, new garden terrace and wall, possibly new windows. That’s a good £200k in London, probably more. And all the hassle of living through it, all the dust and noise, having no kitchen for a while, making all the decisions etc.

Whatever you do OP don’t underestimate building costs in London - they are enormous.

I’ve no idea about prices in that area though so can’t comment on that house’s value!