Why are so many tradesmen absolute s***

[faelavie]

It really boils my p*ss.

My house needs new fascias and soffits and a roof tile replaced as we're getting a lot of damp and now a leak in the bedroom. Posted an ad online, a roofer offered to come and provide a quote which he did. Organised a date to do the work. Paid a deposit.
On the day, the roofer cancelled as he said his apprentice let him down and he can't do the work alone. He said he'd contact us to rearrange.
Fair enough, these things happen.
A week later, no contact, no replies to texts or calls.

This isn't the first time I've had this kind of thing with tradesmen, and I'm just wondering why this business is full of such practices??

And yes I know there are good tradesmen out there - and that you have to hold onto them like gold dust.
And yes I know that there are some horrible clients out there too. I work with the general public and I know how rubbish that can be.

But how difficult is it to just get back to people or just send a quick text to update them on what's going on? Instead of constant radio silence.

If you don't want to do the work, if you're too busy, etc etc - just f'ing tell me and return my deposit so I can find someone else!

Jesus tittyf*ing Christ

With regard to paying a deposit - my Dad runs a building company and he's always warned me never to pay anything up front. A reputable, well intentioned tradesman will usually be happy to get paid after each stage of work is completed. If they say they need money for materials, find out exactly what they are and buy them yourself, so that YOU own them and can be sure no-one is going to do runner with that money.

Sadly the building industry is pretty unregulated and I have read some absolute horror stories on here. Nothing to stop someone squeezing every last penny out of you and then dissolving their company before the work is done, so that you have very limited means of recovering it.

I feel for you. We are in the final process of trying to get some decoration redone as was such a shoddy job. Next stage in small claims court.

[quote faelavie]@Elzbells Well I've managed to contact him and the work is booked in for next week. I guess we'll see?
You'd think being top rated on Checkatrade and Ratedpeople would be reassuring, wouldn't you, but as a PP said... I think some are scared to leave bad reviews.
Paying deposits to tradesmen is really not unusual, if you read around. It does vary, as does people's willingness to do so.[/quote]
Nooooo...those sites are well known for fake reviews or no bad reviews....avoid....!!...all discussed on here in the past.....my new neighbours have an awful builder doing whole house...very slow and always moaning and now he told them he has covid so wont be around for 2 weeks but he is being very vague about where he did the test and the results...he obvs got another job for a few weeks elsewhere..!!

Well if it's any consolation, I'm in Scandinavia and it's the same here.

It's not education.

They do it because they can.

DH is a site manager and joiner, thankfully not a cowboy. A lot of tradesmen behave badly because they're not scared of losing custom. I don't really understand how they've managed to maintain this kind of consequence free environment but you put up with shit from tradesmen because it's a pain in the arse to get someone else and you've no guarantee that the next one will be any better. My dad is in a different trade and it's the same. Also the 'banter', language and attitude to women and parenting, it's disgusting and shocking but totally unchecked.

There are arsehole traders just as there are arseholes in any career unfortunately. My DH isn't going to win any genius grants, but he can make the most beautiful things from wood. I do wish he didn't have to deal with so many sexist unreliable twats, but not sure how/when the industry will change.

Perhaps Mumsnet could add a section where you can recommend various trades in your area. I’ve asked several times on Next Door and it only seems to be people recommending themselves or their family members which I don’t exactly trust!

I’ve got a brilliant fencing/garden overhaul business to recommend if anyone needs one in South London

@Turnedouttoes

Perhaps Mumsnet could add a section where you can recommend various trades in your area. I’ve asked several times on Next Door and it only seems to be people recommending themselves or their family members which I don’t exactly trust!

I’ve got a brilliant fencing/garden overhaul business to recommend if anyone needs one in South London

good idea...the lovely Polish electrician we all use has done work for musmnetters since i posted about him last year...he is punctual and reasonable ...I have renovated 2 houses and have to say, the good work was all done by Polish and Lithuanians....the uk guys were all sloppy and needed nudging...!!

Agreed! I wasted a weeks annual leave last week because of a builder! I work in icu and we can't cancel leave but I would have gone out before lock down! He kept saying he'd be there in x hours. Ridiculous. Meant to come at 8, arrived at 3.30. Then despite having seen the job 3 x he then decided he couldn't do it or that he could but it would be an extra £200,
So I told him to get lost. Did most of it myself last week whilst on leave and got another lovely guy in to finish it. I will not give any recommendations for the first guy and the second one is getting all our work for our holiday cottages in the area. It's a small village so I can't bitch about builder number 1 too much as I'll see him
Out and about! But I'm never using him again and this was a test run to see if he was good enough to use for big jobs.. no is the answer!!

If you dont want the job just fucking tell me! Don't waste my time!

Ooh yeah @YerawizardHarree that's a great way to suss out a tradesperson - get them in for a small job then if they do that well book them for the big one.

I am totally loyal to my electrician because when I was a poor postgrad spending every spare penny on doing up my house, I booked him to change a light fitting (wire in a new one completely). He was absolutely lovely and only charged me the £18 for the fitting.

Same with roofers - we had one redo a small part of the roof and they did good job (about 3k).then we booked the guys they work with (separate companies but they team up for big jobs) to do the rest (about 20k).

On the other hand my first decorator did a rubbish job. The second one was great so am now booking him again for a bigger one.

i have renovated 2 houses and have to say, the good work was all done by Polish and Lithuanians....the uk guys were all sloppy and needed nudging...!! used to be the case, we’ve trained them well, they are all lazy cowboys! To fix my new kitchen it was the Brit who quoted 3k and the Albanian who quoted £10k

Luckily have a strong local network you can’t beat a personal recommendation I now have a boiler man carpet fitter and electrician who know we are good clients and that we recommend them on so always give good service

@OnlyFoolsnMothers Read this thread, others have paid deposits before and it's mentioned on websites e.g. Confused.com, Ratedpeople etc, it's really not that unusual especially for larger jobs going into three figures. If work doesn't go ahead because the client cancels or some such, tradesmen can have to deal with restocking fees etc. There are some good tradespeople out there that have been totally done over by clients before - recently happened to a colleague's husband who is a bathroom fitter - so I can understand some caution, though it's a tricky subject.

Some of these stories here are so awful.

Being as this thread has made it obvious that we can't trust things like Checkatrade etc, what hope do people have who don't know people locally to make recommendations?

We need to fit a bannister next and I'm really thinking of learning to do it myself!

faelavie well more fool them, like I said I have no issue forking out for the materials myself If they come to my home but no way would I pass money to a company or individual that could close down or abscond tomorrow. One of the recent builders I had quote to do my kitchen has closed his company 3 times in 4yrs, on closer inspection he has 3 ccjs outstanding- 1 totalling 12k.
The difference is work men know where their client lives, if they start a job and aren’t paid they can go through small claims.
If a tradesman needs a deposit from me it’s either too small that I could afford to lose it, in which case why would they need it or too large an amount for me to risk losing it.

oh god the coming out to quote, wasting several hours of everyone's life looking at the job and then not sending the quote through and not returning calls - just why???!

@goldierocks I'm in essex and we need to get a bathroom done.
After teh debacle with getting a fencing quote I'm struggling to find someone who does bathrooms who might actually turn up and do a good job. don't suppose you can recommend someone?!

have a good tiler, electrician, odd job plumber (who very honestly said he would do the work if we project managed but didn't want to do the organising himself) and plasterer but not the time or energy to manage the job ourselves

@OnlyFoolsnMothers That's fair enough, it's your choice. Like I said, tricky subject.

Now this really does boil my piss.

What good is a trade account when you have custom made materials manufactured; windows, doors, joinery items. If someone decides they're going with someone else, or just decides to not pay, it's the tradesmen getting scammed, not the customer. Why should you not risk parting with your money, but a tradesman should?

Honestly, I read these tradesmen threads and always regret it. No wonder some of you get no shows because I can guarantee that your holier than thou, "tradesmen are all crooks" attitude shines right through.

I think sometimes people don't realise how busy tradesmen are. They can work 12-14 hours days and by the time they get home they still have to sit down and work out your quotes. This might explain the delays with having quotations sent to you or why you're waiting for contact. They should explain this though on their visit or by email and there's never an excuse for just not turning up on an agreed date. That is the biggest sign of unprofessionalism.

The trick is to find tradesmen that have been recommended. And to not always go with the cheapest quote. Quality tradesmen cost more for a reason.

We've given up on extending our house and have decided to move instead because despite agreeing quotes and dates to start work 6months away builders keep putting us off this has been going on for over 2yrs. We need a small porch roof replacing and can't seem to get anyone to come and do it. We live in a very naice postcode so there is no reason for a tradesman to assume we won't pay, etc.

Bugger, my post was supposed to quote. It's in reply to this one...

"I have never paid a deposit for any trade job. Anyone worth booking will have a trade account.

I wouldn't expect to ever see your deposit again and would be very surprised if you haven't been scammed this time."

MaddieElla but there is a diff, you can take individuals to small claims, companies close down and no one is left accountable. I and many people have no issue paying for materials as long as they come to my add, but to blindly give your money to a stranger is bizarre to me.

Absolutely @OnlyFoolsnMothers, again I would only ever go with someone who had been recommended. On our local town Facebook page it's clear who the reliable tradesmen are.

Yes you can go to the small claims, but if materials have cost thousands of pounds, the time taken to go to small claims isn't going to pay the bills.

Materials can be paid for directly with the supplier if people want to make sure their money is safe, but please don't expect a sole trader to risk thousands of pounds of their own money. Oh and never give cash - always have a paper trail. A decent tradesmen will account for every penny that changes hands.

The only tradesperson I've ever paid with cash is my plumber, because he's amazing. Was very lucky to find him and have recommended him to others.

However the recurring thing here is about recommendations, recommendations, recommendations.

But when I moved here I knew no one. I've also been recommended some total cowboys on local Facebook groups, it can be difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff. If you can't trust Checkatrade, Trust a Trader etc what really is the point in such websites?

I mentioned in my original post I don't mean to condemn all tradespeople and that I do not think all tradespeople are crooks. But no shows and lack of contact over long periods, which many people are describing here, is totally unprofessional.

I'm afraid it will get worst after brexit with less tradesmen coming from EU, native one will become more choosier and expensive.

I hate getting quotes. In my previous job I wasn't allowed to work from home so every time I had a delivery or a tradesman visit, I had to take annual leave. I once wasted three days annual leave waiting in for roofers to quote for replacing a bay window roof because somebody had nicked the lead and despite asking nine roofers, not one turned up! Neighbour ended up doing it in heavy duty roofing felt in the end.

However, in the next month I'm having Polyflor fitted, alcove bookcases fitted, and a new stair and landing carpet. These guys all showed up to quote, the amounts were what I was happy with, so I'm going with them. I really don't have the time and patience to go with that "get three quotes" stuff for each of them. Fingers crossed...

You have my sympathy, I know it must be frustrating. DH is a tradesman and often ends up working 12+ hours, 6 days a week to get round all his jobs. Still he sometimes has to cancel or reschedule work, the main reasons are;

1. A priority contract asked him to do something last minute. Not fair but someone who can give him work regularly is more important to his livelihood than a one off job. He can't afford for them to find someone else.

1. "While your here ...." happens all the time. He might think he's going to do something that will take a few hours, but when he gets there the is far more work than he was told about. This makes if far harder to schedule his time.

1. He's good at his trade, but has no prior experience of management / logistics. He's doing his best, but for the first few years was very much learning on the job.

We've obviously been fairly lucky so far, with an electrician and a plasterer recommended. The first electrician to see the job promised a quote, never heard from him again, but the second not only quoted quickly, he also turned up on the day agreed, did what he was asked to do, and left it tidy! He'll be coming back for sure!

The plasterer was great, turned up at 8am every day, did the work, tidied up after himself, all good. Only issues were his counting (claimed we short-changed him £20, we hadn't!), he also tried to get more work, suggesting he could do two rooms we aren't ready to start yet. Finally, he's not totally with it, he left after finishing the job then messaged us to say he had left the money in the house, which was now locked! 🙄

Years ago we had some builders sort out a flat roof. After they left we discovered some bits and pieces had gone missing (mainly DIY materials)! Couldn't prove anything, but they were a bit dodgy.