flat v house

[Greenhats10]

FTB here and would love to get MNetters advice on our dilemma. We are FTB with a toddler and are currently looking to buy our first property in London. Just started looking but already found a nice two-bed house in an okish area - primaries fine, secondary terrible (would have to move and its really terrible), longish commute - this week we also saw a really nice two-bed flat in a great area with an amazing primary and secondary school and a much easier commute. They are priced almost the same - but now we are really confused about what to do in this market.

Do we go for the house for now but know that we will have to move in say six years time to a completely different area and uprooting everyone or go for the flat where we could stay for much longer (it's really big and the schools are great). I know that everyone always says house over flat but with the looming recession we are just totally confused. Plus my partner is European and totally loves flats - his dream home would be a flat in one of the mansion blocks by Marylebone rather than a detached house. Any advice??

Does the house have a garden? I'm a FTB and my main criteria is some outdoor space like a patio

@GreyGardens88 - they both do and actually the flat (its a ground floor one) has a much bigger and functional garden than a house. the house has quite a tiny one - enough for a table and chairs but not for our toddler to run around it

Are both properties quite closely located (i.e. the same borough) or not?

@Smallgoon - no, they are at completely ends of London - so we couldnt move between them - one is in NLondon and the other in SELondon

We had a similar dilemma - a house in a less desirable location that needed work (but a nice Victorian semi) vs a beautiful conversion flat with a garden in a better location. Flat was about £30k cheaper for more space and we have zero regrets! I love the character it has and the small patio suits us well (were not gardeners).

Investment wise the house was probably a safer bet, but we wanted to live somewhere we liked rather than make a profit.

I live in SE London and would totally say go that way lol.

Where can you add value? The issue with the flat is likely it's a conversion which can have noise issues. Is it leasehold? If so it can cost you a lot of money in ground rent and lease extensions. Also if you want to do any work you'll need the freeholders permission.

The flat sounds so much nicer

Is the flat free hold or lease hold? If the latter- house all the way.

I’d go for the nicer area with the shorter commute every time. If that means a flat then so be it. And if the flat is actually bigger than the house, with a bigger garden and is consequently more future proof then even better.

@Tigger03 - interesting to hear and good to hear that you did not regret your decision.

We are just completely torn but have to make a decision by tomorrow. I do sort of like the area in SELondon but if we have to move again in six years time in this market plus stamp duty etc it's 30k just for the privilege. Am also a bit concerned about uprooting our little one. And the much longer commute. On the other hand, the flat is in a great location - and honestly, I'd happily retire in it and not have to move again.

Is a house always the sensible move? Am great at making all other life decisions but this feels quite fundamental and affecting all of us.

Well I would say function over anything especially with a young family so I would probably go for the flat.

Location first!

Where in SE London is the house? We've recently moved into Kent from there so I know the areas fairly well!

What about schools? stamp duty makes frequent moving pretty prohibitive

On the face of it the flat sounds like the win for you right now. You talk so much more positively about it than the house. But a few questions you might want to ponder.

How long do you think a 2 bed place will last you? Are you planning another child any time soon (not that they can’t share, but plenty of people want a room for each child).

If you think it’s short-medium term, what does it really matter what the secondary schools are like? Also, schools can change a lot in 6 years (good to bad, as well as bad to good).

Do you realistically expect to be commuting like you we’re pre Covid? Maybe the commute isn’t so much of an issue.

What is really putting you off the flat? As you said, it’s partly a cultural thing as your partner prefers flats. Do you just think people expect you to buy a house?

Which do you see fitting you best in 5 years time? I’d put the schools to one side for that one, but someone once told me that in London no garden is ever big enough for an older child, not once they start to want to play football or cricket in the garden. So the larger garden may not be quite so handy in a few years time.

what is the maintenance & ground rent costs? Is flat share of freehold or lease hold what is length of lease -

Ok - am totally outing myself......the flat is in Alexandra palace and the schools are great etc - the house is between Forest Hill and Catford - primaries fine but secondaries for DS would be crap. Plus the move is really expensive in 6 years time or whenever we move for secondaries (DS is just 3)

@Lilybet1980

Only having one child - he's an IVF baby so unlikely to ever have another

I teach so realistically yes my commute will remain the same

And the flat has charges -so kind of like a house

I live between Forest Hill and Catford and have also previously lived in Islington.
We don’t have children yet but there’s no way I’d move back to North London. I absolutely love it here and there’s so much to do and so many amazing parks to visit without getting that inner London feeling. I also think there’s a much stronger sense of community (our local pub was always full of new parents pre lockdown meeting up) in SE London

@Turnedouttoes not sure you can say there's a better sense of community in se london to north london! They're huge areas that incorporate many different types of boroughs. Maybe if you're comparing Islington to Catford you can say that. But the OP isn't moving to Islington.

OP I live in crouch end, having previously lived in Hackney. There's loads of green spaces around here. Ali Pali is great. Highgate woods and queens woods aren't far. The schools are great.

I'd go flat tbh

I live near forest hill and catford too. It's a lovely part of London around here. The primary schools are great, but limited secondary. We've made the choice to go private for secondary and are setting the finances in place for that.

Happy to answer any questions about the area.

Yes that’s probably fair, just my experience having lived north of the river for several years before moving back south.
Out of interest OP why are you looking at two vastly different areas? What made you look at properties in both in the first place?

Just read all the info and really cant understand the dilemma. Surely it is very obvious that the flat if a much better option.

You say its a really big, really nice two-bed flat in a great area with an amazing primary and secondary school and a much easier commute. Also that its a ground floor flat with a much bigger and functional garden than the house.

Why would you not pick the flat its obviously the much better choice!

@Greenhats10 You're not outing yourself at all! I'm in Forest Hill, though between East Dulwich and Forest Hill, rather that Catford. I don't have children so can't comment on schools. Though I hear Sydenham and Bromley are better for schools than perhaps Catford is.

London no garden is ever big enough for an older child, not once they start to want to play football or cricket in the garden. So the larger garden may not be quite so handy in a few years time.

As a Londoner this is true, most gardens here are not big enough for rounders etc so we would always go the common/park.