Considering a Grade II listed property - anyone else got one?

[LadyHalesBroach]

Found a house in a pretty village location, commutable to London.

The house is a chocolate box dream. Thatched roof, wonky bits, very low ceilings and door (ok for me and DP as we’re both only 5’4 but we only just clear it!).

The only thing I’m worried about is what practicality issues I’m not seeing by being blinded by the oodles of character. I’ve always wanted a house with charm but I never quite thought ‘Tudor cottage’.

Thanks in advance!

We live in a Grade II listed building; almost the entire street is listed. Our council is fairly pragmatic but I would echo what others have said that the whole building is listed, inside and out. There's a persistent myth that only certain things are listed and that's not the case. What is the case is that elements which have no historical significance are unlikely to be something the council cares about when you come to do work. So in our house the external appearance (although we also didn't get permission to change the colour of the front door, no one does on our street) such as the single glazed windows etc would be something the council would be hot on, we have some decorative plaster work in one room. Beyond that, they like to preserve the original room layout but don't seem to care what goes in to rooms, they're just not wild on walls being knocked down. They don't give a stuff what we do with our two extensions beyond that they must be in keeping. Ours is not particularly interesting as houses go though so I guess they might be fussier on other properties.

Would I live in another? Yes if I a house I loved was listed I would, but that's unlikely since having owned this has made me realise I don't like older buildings personally and am unlikely to find/be able to afford a listed 60s gem, which I would happily live in!

Oh, and ours is not that old nor does it have a thatched roof but we pay £88 per month combined for fuel and our house insurance is with a normal insurer.

Ours is G2 listed, we have had to pay a lot of money in applications over the years for things such as a roof repair, they have to approve the materials etc. Eg we had to pay over £300 fees and wait 6 months to put up a shed and it also took us 3 years to obtain permission and build a separate annexe. We also wanted solid oak window frames but were told to have softwood, painted cream. So they will need more maintenance. We love our house but wish the previous owner hadn't listed it as it's a pain in the balls! Ours isn't thatched any more (the Victorians changed it to peg tile) but do bear in mind a thatch will need totally replacing every 20 years and the insurance could be high.

Ps as others have said you can do what you like inside as long as you are not altering the structure, eg moving walls or staircases or damaging beams etc is a no-no!

We lived in a thatched cottage. The thatch needed replacing after 5 years of us being there and it cost £40,000. Someone has to come inspect the thatch ever year to make sure it doesn't need anything. Our heat bill tripled. It's very easy to fall in love with a house like that in summer....not so much when it's cold and leaking in winter. You need to be always saving forward the next thatch. Those are very low ceilings and will limit the resale value. That house won't likely make you any money as you'll sink loads into maintenance. If you just want a home and don't mind it not being an investment and the don't mind sinking lots into maintence then go for it.

This is all really helpful, thank you. I’m really shocked by how much it costs to replace thatch! I’m going to send these questions to the agent now and come back to you all with the answers. Such a brilliant hive mind! I’d have boldly gone along with this house purchase living the Tudor wench dream and be completely sideswiped by the hidden costs.

"if you just want a home and don't mind it not being an investment and the don't mind sinking lots into maintenance then go for it."
^ This. I wouldn't like to add up hope much we've spent (ours needed work on it) and how much we will spend, Our roof which is traditional for this area was "overhauled" nothing major that means loose slates were fixed and moss removed (a big problem with our type of roof) sort out a chimney and some lead work done when we moved in that cost £5000. To replace it with like for like £35,000! To address the issues around our ancient architectural feature you're looking at £10,000+ and we'd have to move out and empty the house out. Getting the heating right; a brand new boiler, better radiators etc. I could go on! We would like to repoint the external brick work as its functional but bodged up we have to use traditional mortar God knows how much that would cost. 6 new and more correct windows £3500 each. But when I go into friends modern boxes with low or no maintenance (and bloody amazing plumbing but Im getting there slowly) I personally would swop my old house for there's for a million pounds. We decided this is our home we're not moving so every penny we spend is carefully thought through and we put in the best we can afford so that to will last.

OP some manage to live in beautiful ancient dwellings which they rewire and re roof and re configure beautifully. You see them in the magazines. But I always think they must have v deep
Pockets and an expensive architect who knows how to deal with the authorities! And as has bee mentioned some local authorities appear to be more pragmatic than Others!
Perhaps check the planning records of other listed houses in the area and see what's been allowed?

We rent a listed thatched house. In terms of the wood burners we have 2, no issues as long as you have a proper double walled flue system and an extra tall chimney pot. Idiots next door to a friend had a bonfire far too close to the house and the wind blew sparks across causing a thatch fire, which is not uncommon apparently. Our place hasn't needed a lot of maintenance in the time that we have lived here, and there are no obvious issues that will need maintenance in the next few years either. The thatch plus thick walls keep the house cool in summer and warm in winter. We have secondary glazing panels and don't notice window draughts.

It's a gorgeous house and we love living here, especially with all the character. The only downside is that we couldn't get contents insurance as we have a stream around the garden and the windows don't lock - but we have a gun and a shouty dog, a low crime rate and nosey neighbours so we cross our fingers and hope for the best!

Shadows - try geese. They are an excellent burglar repellent!

pinotpleasure I would love geese! DH is very anti them unfortunately as they would be brilliant for security. We do have a large flock of hens and call ducks who generally make a racket if the neighbours cat comes through the garden so I think we would have some warning of burglars.

Not much to add except to say the best advice I ever read on here was never to buy a listed building unless you can live with it as it is right now. Obviously you can fix stuff that is broken, but never buy on the basis that you will be able to move a wall, or extend a bit, or paint the front door a different colour.

And assume that any maintenance or alterations will cost roughly double what they would cost in a non-listed building.

So a bit of an update....

EPC found online is D, which is about average for UK. I was very surprised it was that good!

Owners monthly energy (g & e) is £70 pm and every winter he buys £45 of treated logs and that lasts him.

The whole house was renovated 16 years ago (there’s even a book about it in the local library!) and the windows and thatch was done then.

Family room is double glazed and yes had special permission,

The chimney flue is more than 6ft away from the thatch, as per new guidance. I need to ask if it’s been especially rendered or something.

So now I’m just trying to cost up how much it might be to replace the thatch in X years time. It feels like I either buy a thatch roof, or pay for my daughters university education. OR pay for her to learn how to thatch roofs and kill two birds with one stone.

Second viewing at the weekend.

Thanks again everyone, loving hearing your stories!!!

Good luck with the viewing. Just came back on to say that £45 worth of logs is not many logs at all. We live rurally, where logs are generally cheap, but even so we get through £100 worth most winters, and that is not lighting the logburner every day (and even less the past winter). Just makes me wonder how often it is lit - possibly only once a week for that amount of money?

Watching with interest here. We live in a c. 400-year-old house which, perversely, isn't listed - we reckon because it was a farm which from the front doesn't look especially ancient, and when the listings were done it was somehow missed (we're in quite a tucked-away spot). Consequently it's been bodged about over the years.

Ironically we wanted to make sympathetic repairs, eg replace modern (damp-trapping) plaster with breathable lime. It looks as though your house is in pretty good order, better than ours was, though it's not clear from the pics whether the interior plasterwork is lime. The outside certainly looks as though it is. This is a specialist skill, expensive, and finding reliable tradesmen to work in lime can be a bit of a challenge.

People who live in very old houses tend to get keen on the history and develop a respect for all the quirks and oddities. But I could weep when I see the way some people destroy the things that give their houses character....I'm sure ours had much more integrity before it was 'modernised' in the 1970s. We certainly stripped off several acres of woodchip wallpaper from original plaster

The house is beautiful (she says enviously). I personally would buy it in a heartbeat (keep a savings account for the thatch). if it needed doing up then I would perhaps hesitate, but realistically, who is to know what you do inside?

Yes that's so true cedilla. Someone got rid of the lime and replaced it with traditional plaster which doesn't breathe as well which is a real shame

Watching with interest here. We live in a c. 400-year-old house which, perversely, isn't listed - we reckon because it was a farm which from the front doesn't look especially ancient, and when the listings were done it was somehow missed (we're in quite a tucked-away spot). Consequently it's been bodged about over the years.

I’d look into what is listed around you. My parents house wasn’t listed when they bought it. They replaced the metal windows at the back with double glazed windows.
About 10 years later they wanted to build an extension and so applied for planning permission. A chap from the council came out and informed them that the house was listed and they could take those windows out. My parents replied that they had no knowledge of it being listed.
Turns out that when they were doing the listing they selected the wrong building on the map and listed an old hut down the road by mistake.
Someone then noticed this mistake and changed the listing to my parents house but didn’t think to mention it to anyone.

Then kept the windows after a fight.

We have a listed building. We love it, it's beautiful. It also takes a lot of time, trouble and money. It's a house and also a hobby.

I'd think really carefully about whether the house suits you and your family. Or would you be better buying an average semi and going on holiday in a Landmark Trust property once a year?

I hope that isn't too blunt, but I do think it's something you have to avidly want. It isn't for everyone. Lovely house though.

"And assume that any maintenance or alterations will cost roughly double what they would cost in a non-listed building."
This is simply not the case with a grade 2 listed building.
Our windows were expensive because we replaced hideous (rotten) 70's ones complete with ghastly dimpled glass with sashes, listed or not we wouldn't have put UPVC ones in. We have a new kitchen and am about to have a brand new bathroom, neither have been cheap but that was our choice its cost us no more than if we did the same thing in a new build yes we applied for listed building consent to take down a small wall in the bathroom but thats free to apply for. We generally use Farrow and Ball paint again thats it our choice no one says use X, our front door cant be painted ever so although the door is solid oak and expensive over the years we probably save on paint. Major alterations maybe expensive but they can be in any house. Yes repointing the brickwork will cost money but it doesn't need doing it would just look better.
Look at the individual house if your buying a falling down grade 2 listed wreck and you want to put all the original/age appropriate features back then yes its going to cost you lots money but if the place is generally in good repairs maintenance doesn't have to break the bank. We have no plans to sell but if we ever sell our place (assuming we've finished it) then it wont cost the new owners a fortune the only work that would need would be cosmetic and the new owners choice.
£45 a year for logs!!! I just don't believe that we're rural we buy 1 load of logs they cost £120 -£140 and last us 4 weeks we only have one fire place we use it every night autumn, winter and early spring, I should add it is absolutely enormous but we do have very efficient central heating. Friends with wood burners that use them every night and again only to supplement the central heating buy at least 2 loads from October to April usually 3.

I live in a grade 2 listed building, I love it, and I’d not hesitate to buy one again, they are listed because generally they are unique and full of original features that are of historical interest.

You can’t change anything structural or rip original features out with put permission. If you want to do that shit you shouldn’t buy a listed building

Anything cosmetic like replacing kitchen or bathroom, new carpet, decorating etc doesn’t need permission. What the listing does is preserves the building and the original features for historical interest Ie stairs, doors, fireplaces, beams, windows, chimneys, etc. No one gives a shit about your sixties Wickes kitchen. Or your nineties b&q one...or if you paint your bedroom walls bright pink.

The government want these homes to be lived in, they know what that involves, and they can’t afford for them to sit empty because it’s too difficult for folks. It’s the people who buy them and live in them who preserve them. That’s why you can change your kitchen or your carpet or wall paper your walls, but not rip out the original fireplace.

That house is lovely, so only the thatch would concern me.

£45 of treated logs and that lasts him - I very much doubt that. We have an open fire and a wood burner in a different room. We spend roughly £250 per winter on logs, which is just two deliveries, and about the same on coal. Unless the house is a really warm one (it's old, of course it isn't!) then there no way they only spend that much.

You say they renovated recently. Check what materials they used for the renovation. For examply, re-plastered walls should have been done using lime plaster. Modern gypsum plaster doesn't breathe and can create damp patches and ultimately blown plaster.

Old houses are expensive to run, maintain and renovate. But they are fabulous to live in and so rewarding. It certainly helps if you can do lots of maintenance/work yourselves, and you are up for the challenge of finding out the correct way to work on old property.

Our house is grade two. Love it. The listing does apply inside as well?

Looking at the planning applications, in 2003 it was uninhabited and had been for a while (described as dilapidated and having suffered partial collapse - current owners had been given an urgent works notice). The Grade II listing was made whilst it was in its previous state, as the planning application is for adding a second storey, rear and side extensions, and thatched roof. It’s also located within a conservation area.

publicaccess.aylesburyvaledc.gov.uk/online-applications/simpleSearchResults.do?action=firstPage

Looks like the works were done between 2003 and 2004 judging by the sales history, so the thatch would be 16 or 17 yrs old. Original walls are described as wychert, which is a mixture of chalky earth mixed with straw.

I live in a grade two listed thatched cottage, my house insurance is over £1500 per year. One of the quotes was £6000! Please look into this first. I love my house, but there are lots of challenges involved: windows and doors cannot be changed, we have to use a specialist builder for repairs and as they are craftsmen this is also £££.

I’d also check the age of the gas boiler - if it was installed in 2003/4 it will be coming towards the end of its life.