Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Property/DIY

Join our Property forum for renovation, DIY, and house selling advice.

Considering a Grade II listed property - anyone else got one?

88 replies

LadyHalesBroach · 14/06/2020 17:48

Found a house in a pretty village location, commutable to London.

The house is a chocolate box dream. Thatched roof, wonky bits, very low ceilings and door (ok for me and DP as we’re both only 5’4 but we only just clear it!).

The only thing I’m worried about is what practicality issues I’m not seeing by being blinded by the oodles of character. I’ve always wanted a house with charm but I never quite thought ‘Tudor cottage’.

Thanks in advance!

OP posts:
LadyHalesBroach · 14/06/2020 22:40

We were aware of the need to replace the thatch every X years, this one was last done 15 years ago so it played on our mind. And the owner’s building insurance is £1000 per year (is that a lot?)

But that reference to the stove is VERY INTERESTING and I don’t know why it didn’t cross my mind before. I’ve just read this article.

I have a 3 year old DD and hopefully soon another on the way. I’m not sure I feel comfortable going to bed at night after having a few logs burning in an evening.

historicengland.org.uk/advice/technical-advice/emergency-and-fire/fire-advice/reducing-fires-in-thatched-roof-properties/

OP posts:
FlamingoAndJohn · 14/06/2020 22:43

And the owner’s building insurance is £1000 per year (is that a lot?)

I’m in a standard 1940s 3 bed semi. My insurance with all the bells and whistles is £160 for the year.

MynameisJune · 14/06/2020 22:48

Ours is Grade 2 listed and just over 200 years old so quite a new build compared to some 🤣, as I understand it Grade 2 listing is only usually the external facade of the property not internal, that’s usually Grade 1.

We need permission to paint our front doors, but from what I gather that’s never been an issue as long as it’s in keeping with the house. We have wooden windows, my DH is fairly handy and has taught himself how to refurb them. Good maintenance is vital, it will save you a fortune.

Everything with old houses is more difficult, everything is bespoke because no wall is straight or window standard measurement.

We have an Aga in the kitchen, and wood burning stoves in the living room and dining room. In the summer the house stays relatively cool thanks to the thick walls. Yes it can be cold in winter but you get used to it. We have the fires on, and blankets on the sofa. We have 2 small children and no complaints from them.

It’s lovely I can see why you’ve fallen in love and as long as you go in with your eyes wide open they’re a real pleasure to live in. Much better than a standard new build box.

LadyHalesBroach · 14/06/2020 22:49

Yeah ok the amount of maintenance the stove needs, the chimney and the thatch, and the cost of insurance and the risk of fire. I think it might be time to say bye to this one.

Such a shame!!!

OP posts:
Wauden · 14/06/2020 22:53

@LadyHalesBroach.

Found the list description for you:
Heritage Category:Listed Building
Grade:II
List Entry Number:1118253
Date first listed:11-Oct-1985
Statutory Address: 9, THE CROFT

House. C17. Witchert, colourwashed and roughcast, with brick gables above bands, also colourwashed and rough-cast. Corrugated iron roof, 3 bays and 2 storeys. Gable elevations fronts road. 2-light casements, horizontal sliding windows to first floor. South elevation has 2 left bays with 2-light casements and right hand door, right bay has single ground floor casement. Diagonal chimney at south east corner rendered and west projecting stack of C17 thin bricks.

Listing NGR: SP7393408278

Legacy

The contents of this record have been generated from a legacy data system.

Legacy System number:43150Legacy System:LBS

Legal

This building is listed under the Planning (Listed Buildings and Conservation Areas) Act 1990 as amended for its special architectural or historic interest.

Wauden · 14/06/2020 22:56

Sorry to repeat, but a listed building is listed to the inside as well as the outside.

newbathroomforme · 14/06/2020 22:58

"It's worth looking at what exactly is listed,"
Needless to say our house didn't have a bathroom when it was originally built, in the 1970"s an extension was added, its just a two storey box with a roof, listed building regulation apply to this as well so for example when we needed to replace an existing hideous 1970's rotten window in the bathroom with a window which was actually more in keeping with the house we had to apply for listed building consent. I think there is also something about building within the "curtilage" of a listed building so you cant just whack up a shed for example. We has to apply for listed building consent detailing what it would be made of (it had to be oak) and as I said above we're not even allowed to paint the door or stain it has to be allowed to "weather naturally".
Having said all of this many of my local friends and neighbours live in listed houses they've done things without applying for listed building consent, especially if it cant be easily seen, one has knocked down a wall, one has made a window another has replaced windows many have put up sheds and painted their front doors and not bothered to apply for listed building consent. Ultimately councils cant drive around looking at every listed house to see what they done, and if thieve applied for permission to do it, if they sell it should be picked up then they might have to apply in retrospect but friends have sold and no one has known or picked up on what they've done. I only know that I cant paint my front door because I read it my houses extensive file at the local council office before I purchased it. I'm not saying you should do this but plenty do and get away worth it, my DH has always applied for listed building consent but he made one big application for all the work he planned to do, I think we had to submit elevations and maps which you will have to pay for but once you've got all of those then you can keep them and use them again if you want to apply again.

Athenajm80 · 14/06/2020 23:03

My dad and stepmother live in a New Forest thatched cottage. They have a wood burner which they use daily/nightly when the evenings get nippy. It's never been am issue. All their friends have the same. Maybe with an open fire it would be different?

I love visiting them and normally a proper city mouse. The cottage is always warm or cool, depending on the weather, ie cool when it's hot outside and vice versa.

Personally I'd look into the restrictions around the listing, and potential costs for a new thatch etc and ask a thatched about wood burning stoves, but providing I thought I could afford them, I would go for it. It is a gorgeous house.

LadyHalesBroach · 14/06/2020 23:07

This is all fascinating thank you.

Thanks @newbathroomforme for such detailed insight and thanks @Wauden for finding the listing! So fascinating!

I’m still in love, and we’re going to do a second viewing and get the owners feedback now that I’ve got all this knowledge to hand.

I’m trying to let my head rule my heart, being a full time working mum with a toddler, is it really sensible to take on a property that might need a lot of maintenance and be expensive just to live in. Sort of feels like it’s a Chocolate Box Tax, which we have to figure out if we’re willing to pay for such a gorgeous house.

(PS on a separate and ridiculous note, anyone in really old houses like this one not worried about it being a bit spooky given its 500 years old?! I did say it was ridiculous...)

OP posts:
newbathroomforme · 14/06/2020 23:19

Our bells and whistles house insurance is nearly £800 PA but it very comprehensive.
"Sorry to repeat, but a listed building is listed to the inside as well as the outside."
Yes it does but we for example did not need to apply for listed building consent to put in a new kitchen or tile the bathroom floor (although the surveyor said we did but the council planning office said we didn't because it was only grade 2 listed). We had one small non supporting part wall which was dividing up a space in our 70's extension, to take that down we did need to apply for listed building consent but its free to apply for, and and was granted with 8 weeks. Contrary to what surveyors may tell you you don't need to pay an expert in fact our council advised us to do the application ourselves unless it was major structural work like an extension or loft conversion.
My feeling for talking to our planning office is that they are realists if you can explain why you are doing something then they accept that after all they want people olive in and look after these houses. So for example there is an arguement for saying we should be putting in mullioned stone windows in our house but 1 they are very expensive, 2 we were advised by the local stone mason that we would loose a lot of light, 3 the majority of house in our row (all of similar ages) over the years have had sashes put in, and 4.we have very old photo of the house with sash windows so we applied to put new sashes in, submitting photos of the neighbours houses with sashes (carefully omitting the two hoses who have the original stone mullions in) and they allowed us to have sashes. We know we will have to eventually address the problem of our ancient architectural feature but it cant be left as it is because its already causing us problems and will eventually it will become unsafe and therefore sadly despite its history and age will have to be replaced with a replica, once we explained this to our our council said we would replace it with an identical one (at enormous cost) they accepted this and have given us permission to do it.

namechangegarden · 14/06/2020 23:44

While the house itself seems lovely (though the stairs look too steep), the main road immediately to the side, plus the neighbour parked right outside my front door would put me off. It looks like there could potentially be access issues if you have a car too.

newbathroomforme · 14/06/2020 23:48

'on a separate and ridiculous note, anyone in really old houses like this one not worried about it being a bit spooky given its 500 years old"
I'm not really into spooky things but I have never felt our house was spooky, I have stayed in houses that aren't anywhere near as old as mine that make noises all the time and if your a bit anxious about spooky things this could be quite disconcerting but my house doesn't creek bang or groan. Years ago unknown to us we stayed in what turned out to be Thornfield Hall or at least the house that Charlotte Bronte based Thornfield Hall on, now that was very spooky, the locals said the ghost of a mad women lived in it and was apparently regularly seen although we were reassured she was totally harmless!

waterandlemonjuice · 15/06/2020 00:05

My 2p worth:

Buildings insurance is higher for a listed and thatched building - ours is £1.2k a year.

Thatch isn’t more likely to catch fire, the issue is that once it’s ON fire there’s not much anyone can do - think about it, it’s supposed to repel rainwater, so a fire hose isn’t going to help if it’s on fire and there’s an abundance of fuel eg more thatch! A fireman locally told me they can’t do much except rescue people and things but they often spray water to appease onlookers and to be seen to be doing something.

However, if you follow safety precautions eg getting the chimney swept twice a year, never leaving a fire overnight etc it’s fine. A real fire is lovely. Our roof has been intact for 300+ years so...

Listing applies to the whole building but you can decorate without permission except eg you can’t paint the front door sky blue if it was putty coloured. Realistically though councils don’t have the resources to check unless it’s flagrant or reported.

I’d want to see listed building consent for that extension IIWY.

That thatch looks in good condition but it’s expensive to replace. We’ve been quoted from £45k - £55k but it’s a bigger roof than your house. If it won’t need doing for 25 years don’t worry. Get a thatchers opinion though before buying.

I don’t care about ghosts but feel privileged to live in an old house. We have flagstones and servants bells and love our house, which we’ve lived in for over 10 years. We’ve spent £££ on decorating but the maintenance has been fine, apart from the thatch. The PP who said don’t worry about minor points is right but do get a full survey from someone who knows old buildings. I don’t regret our house as it’s an amazing family home.

That said, I’m not sure I’d do thatch again but that’s because ours needs replacing! Good luck.

waterandlemonjuice · 15/06/2020 00:10

Find out about gas and electricity costs too, ours is £350-500 a month.

I expect they have consent for the extension as it’s fairly new.

LadyHalesBroach · 15/06/2020 07:15

I’m going to do some research with the estate agent and give him plenty of questions. YY to asking about planning permission for the extension - that was done by previous owners before current vendor, he was a builder who did up the property.

The listing also says corrugated iron roof, and the thatch on this looks quite thin. So I wonder if the thatch here is just cosmetic?

OP posts:
Dinosauraddict · 15/06/2020 07:22

I love old houses and Grade 2 doesn't put me off at all, but I would never buy a thatched house (as pretty as I think they are to look at). Partly due to the cost of regularly repairing the thatch (which is just extortionate tbh) but also because you get a lot more spiders in thatched houses and I just couldn't cope.

TheoneandObi · 15/06/2020 07:25

We live in one and have done extensive work. IN the beginning (I'll be honest so don't flame me) we sought permission for everything. And got so many knock backs. Our local authority seemed to enjoy saying no for the sake of it! The final straw came when one of their experts came round to inspect and labelled some ventilation slots in an old barn as 'arrow slits'. Really. That's what they thought they were. After that I thought hell I know more about this building (from talking to the aged former owner for a start) and delving into records, so started to take a more relaxed route. We sought permission for additions and exterior works (all of which were first turned down and had to be re drafted), but internal works? Nope. We just got on with it. And as a result we no longer have a house which has rot and damp corners, but one where air circulates and mould is (largely) banished. My big bug bear is double glazing. Our LA will not approve double glazing, even of the uber expensive heritage variety. To be clear the proposed replacement windows would have looked exactly the same. But been energy efficient. Wooden frames, same window bars, but super slim glazing with no double reflections. But they won't countenance it. We have actually replaced one set of windows on a side of the house not subject to public gaze. And no one would know except us (because glory be that room is warmer!).
That said everyone who sees our house goes into raptures about it. I think we've been careful to retain its outer character (materials, design, everything) while making it fitter for 21st century purp[ose.
Would i buy another listed property? No!

BlueWave · 15/06/2020 07:38

We live in a house built in 1607 that is grade 2 listed

We have 2 working fireplaces with a bread oven. You just need the chimneys swept regularly.

A few things I find annoying

  • we have to have an outside boiler as we can't put them indoors and those take a lot more work than indoors ones
  • the house is v badly sound insulated - I can call someone's name in one corner and you can hear it in every room Grin
  • the house is stone so needs a lot of heating in winter
  • we have secondary glazing and it works fine

We don't have a thatch roof and I would think twice about that - thatchers are getting few and far between

It's actually more of a pain for us being in a conservation area than the listing

If you've fallen in love with it, you will be fine!

Bertucci · 15/06/2020 07:47

We live in a 400 year old listed property.

Can’t really think of negatives apart from it’s expensive to heat. It’s very higgeldy-piggeldy, with low ceilings and some very low doors, but we love it.

TheoneandObi · 15/06/2020 07:50

To add from my experience and talking to other owners who take a pragmatic view like us (and most do even if they don't admit it) councils can not afford to fight every transgression. Sure if you've added a ghastly dormer window to your old building you'll robs ly deservedly have the book tblhriwn at you, but it would take a brave council with deep pockets to pursue someone for making a kitchen diner.
The thing I always try to remember is that the house has to be LIVED in, and we certainly want to take care of ours.
Fortunately there was no record of the exact internal layout when we bought it either! And I strongly suspect it had already been tinkered with post-listing in 1972

TheoneandObi · 15/06/2020 07:55

And all our external stone pointing has been redone in line using Lica sand in the mix. Labour of live (and cash) but it looks beautiful!

GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 15/06/2020 07:57

I've just looked at the floor plan and all I'd say is that the kitchen looks a bit cramped and it's a long way to a dining table - a pain with a toddler and a baby. If it was mine, the kitchen would => study and the family room => kitchen diner.

IME local councils are realistic. That house is in very good shape but after wreck-fixing I know that they'd rather see a house sensitively repaired than falling down.

LadyHalesBroach · 15/06/2020 08:04

I agree @grumpymiddleagedwoman I definitely want the kitchen to be in the back room. I’d lose the mezzanine thing tbh and open it up so it’s more light and airy. But I wouldn’t know where to begin with making that work. I assume a specialist builder And plumber from the area?

OP posts:
Reedwarbler · 15/06/2020 08:14

Speaking as an old fart, time passes quickly. The thatch may not need doing for 15 years, but suddenly that 15 years is gone and you are looking at forking out 50k on a new roof. Or if you decide to sell after 10 years an incoming buyer might start querying the integrity of your now ageing roof material, and ask for a significant reduction. I think of a thatched house near me whose roof was covered in tarpaulins for several years because they couldn't afford the replacement.
Personally, although it is lovely to look at, I would never have a thatched property because of the replacement costs (as against, say, a Cotswold stone roof which would have a lifespan of a hundred years plus) and the fire risks. Every November 5th I would be worrying about stray rockets!

Blimeyoreilly2020 · 15/06/2020 08:33

Re feeling weird about living in a house with so much history - we live in an oldie but I’ve always believed that if you’re looking after the house it (and any lingering presence should they exist!) will be kind to you! Also I know it’s not what you specifically asked but I’ve got friends who moved from London to that particular place with young kids a few years ago and have LOVED it...schooling options on all spectrums is amazing and they’ve found the local community fab.