London - 700k budget a nice two-bed flat or small house further out with DS

[rollypolly80]

Hi,

This is a follow up from another thread. I've been debating whether to go for a nice two-bed flat in a fab area with good schools/shortish commute or go for a two-bed house somewhere further out and probably less nice.

I am a single parent with one DS so great schools and commuting are important. I'll never be able to afford private and would love for DS to go somewhere nice. Currently renting in the centre which is super convenient but expensive and should really buy. I come from abroad and have always lived in flats, but a few people were suggesting that I should opt for a house but further out.

What would you do? Is it always better to opt for a house or is a nice big flat good enough? Is my kid going to be looked down for living in a flat - sorry am clearly over-worrying about this, I already have enough guilt that his dad is not around without him being made fun of that we don't have a massive house with a drive.

Think I studied at your place of work not once but twice, once early and once late twenties and would walk in from Islington. As others have said, it’s lefty and liberal and nice. I loved living round there and being able to walk in to central london at the weekend for exhibitions etc. Good bus connections to Euston too. You could probably get a more spacious two bed at the canonbury/stoke Newington end but there are 2 beds in Islington at your budget.

Desiring yes nothing wrong with Est Finchley - it just wasn't on OP's original list. I agree it a a good, practical choice if you are within 10min of hte tube - a bit further on ghe tube than Tuffnell Park and zone 3 (bit more to pay) but it's nice around the HIgh Street - not as busy as Muswell Hill's but a good High St with a very good (turkish?) bakery, cinema etc. And a few bus stops to either M.Hill or Highgate.
Good value for money, for sure, compared to fanicer areas, and feels very safe.

jcurve I've mentioned the same about Stoke N in my earlier post - heard of the mugings in the park too.

Forest Hill much safer and more suburban, but generally NOrth London areas you've mentioned, OP are safer than SE London (though prob Forest Hill an Sydenham are quite safe as they are more suburban - Crystal P / Norwood less so).

@ChocoTrio
There is a lot of talk on this forum about a financial and housing downturn. It's an uncertain time. If you can buy somewhere nice outright then that will give you peace of mind too.

Yes, but where is considered 'nice' whilst being affordable in London? It's easier for those of us familiar with this city. As OP says, there are a fair few factors for her to consider. My personal advice would be that she stays quite central, and opts for a 2 bed flat, since this will prob give her peace of mind, and mean she can quickly dash to DS should an issue arise. Flats are easier to maintain, secure and plentiful. I imagine if she were considering a new build, she'd manage to get a decent deal in the current market, given how overpriced they are in London.

Sometimes familiarity is key. It's all fair and well people suggesting Stoke Newington, but personally, I wouldn't want to raise a young child there.

Something to think about is that flats often involve hefty management fees whereas houses are usually freehold.

In your position, I would look at maisonette style flats on the ground floor with a garden as good value and often share of freehold

Settle exactly - especially anything with a lift may saddle you with 3K service charge per year (been there done that - we started with 2K pa charge and gone up to 3.5k due to lift repairs within a couple of years - and didn't come down again!)

It would help if you could give areas you are looking at? I'd always go for a house over a flat but it depends how stretched your budget would be.

Come to Notting hill! It’s a great area. We love it!

RE: service charges - yes they can be costly, particularly on a new build, but if she manages to get a good price on a new build, I'd take the service charge. I pay £1600 a year for my flat and I own a share of the freehold so I have a say on how that money is spent. I have to say, our building is brilliantly maintained so it doesn't piss me off that I have to pay one, but I'd deffo resent having to pay circa £3k a yr.

@Anotherchangeanothername would love to but 700k is absolute top and thats just not enough for the area.

@SheldonSaysSo1 - i asked that on another thread - basically, I need a two-bed place big enough for my son and I with good schools and within an easy commute to Euston/Bloomsbury area-ish. As a 'newcomer' ish from abroad, I still dont know London all that well so welcome any ideas/suggestions.

@Smallgoon - thank you for all of your suggestions. I've tried to have a look at service charges, but it's hard to find out by how much they increase every year. For example, if a service charge is currently 1500 per year, what is it likely to be in say five years time, the English system is so baffling. And dont get started on ground rent, what is that...anyway I will get used to it all :-)

I advise looking round some secondary schools once they reopen- that could make your mind up straight away.

Personally, I prefer Camden secondaries to Muswell Hill/Fortismere. Acland Burghley is a great school and Tufnell Park is a brilliant area. I’d also go for a more central flat over a suburban house in your position.

Commute from honor oak/Brockley/crofton park really not bad to Euston because of the Thameslink to KX. Depending where you work (I guess SOAS or something) you can walk from there.

@rollypolly80 Ground rent is usually tiny compared to the service charge - my annual ground rent for example is £100 compared to the service charge of £1600.

This is why advice to you has been to see if you can get find a flat with a share of the freehold, as you tend to have greater power, and I suspect the service charge isn't drastically increased without the buy in of those that live in the building. Our building management for example hold quarterly meetings which we are invited to. In these meetings they share financial details, and basically let us know what our money has been spent on, and for any monies left over, ask us what we'd like this money to be spent on. I've been fortunate with our building management who I have found to be incredibly responsive and professional.
My brother for example pays roughly £300 a month service charge, and any issues are not treated with the urgency they deserve. He doesn't have a share of freehold. The building he is in is also not in the greatest state, whereas mine is immaculate.

@Toomuchsky Interesting why would you say that? Looking at the results Muswell hiĺl secondaries and eben Highgate Wood seems to have better results than Camden schools or even Islington. Honestly, school options for boys seem a lot worse than girls......

It’s a completely personal preference- AB has a better arts offer IMO, and a wider cross-section of children which means overall results not as good. Fortismere has a lot of children who would do well anywhere; although there’s not much in it. Progress 8 for Fortismere represents 88% of total students whereas AB is 94%.

I prefer Camden LA to Muswell Hill too, as MH feels more suburban to me. Also like Stoke Newington, and Stoke Newington school.

I think you’d get a feel of them if you could visit- although not going to be possible for a while, sadly.

You could stick a pin in a map in any of the areas you’ve mentioned and you’d probably find a great long term home

I think Tufnell Park should be one of your tops choices - I've already mentioned how great it is for transport to Euston and it's quiet-ish but not suburban. easy access to buzzy areas next door. But I didn't know about schools - now that Toomuchsky mentioned it's got a grea t school - it's well worth a look!

OP Ther is no way to predict the rises on service charge, it's different for each building! I always lived in period (Victorian) blocks and in the nice ones - with well kept communal parts, and usually a caretaker - the sevice charge is high and then the building and lift repairs happen on top!
But even new builds may need a scaffold put up for cleaning etc - it's just there is less chance of a roof leaks etc and the lifts are more modern!
So yes, a share of freehold is better even though you won't be able to escape repairs,and look out for the state of the building and find out what has been done recently - or go for a small house, in good condition only!

Conversion garden flat with share of freehold may give more control on costs. But purpose built can be good layout.

Freehold house on that budget will be tiny . some ex council possibly... a flat may offer better space .
Flats are completely normal in london

Good location easy access to euston area = tufnell park east finchley kentish town etc
Why dont you ask colleagues? Where do they live? Benefits and cons?

The thing with conversion garden flats- there are usually only two freeholders- you and your upstairs neighbour. if the two of you are collaborative, its fine. However if there are works needed and 1 person refuses to pay, that can be problematic. I live in a development of 34 flats, 1 person hasn't been paying and we are pursuing him (at least our managing agent is doing all the paperwork), but 1 out of 34 doesn't make a massive difference. Also we have a sink fund so its not like 1 person can delay repairs.

with 2 flats, you don't have the economies of scale to appoint a managing agent and its all rather DIY. Maybe you would contribute to a sink fund, maybe you wouldn't. So like with a freehold, you have to be disciplined to set aside costs for maintenance. However unlike a freehold, you don't have perfect control as there is still your neighbour who may or may not be reasonable. with more people as in a development (with a share of freehold), the antics of 1 or 2 people doesn't matter so much.

I live in Shoreditch with my four year old in a two bed flat, it’s a really nice area, lots of parks close by, good schools and lots to do.

Stoke Newington is also very nice, I doubt I will ever move out of Shoreditch, but if I do I will head over to Stoke Newington.

@Embracelife - will check out the areas you mentioned. I've already had a chat with my colleagues but most of them are either child free and live nearby or in SE London (i.e. a long commute is fine - there are in no rush) or are a bit older than me and bought in the 2000s i.e. could still afford a three bed family house in North and West London, which just isnt the case for my generation. The few people my age with school kids commute in from real far out but have partners that either work p/t or locally.

and in terms of schools, everyone at work either went private or grammar....so areas a bit less important. Not sure that I can afford the former and the latter seems really tough on the kid. Or maybe this is yet another thing that I'll have to get used to. But tutoring for two years seems a bit harsh on an 8/9-year-old, at the same time (hands up am biased) - I do expect my kid to have the opportunity to go to the top two/three unis and for the school to support him in that. Am not a pushy parent, but I also don't think its all that hard.

@rollypolly80 1 thing that scares me is that all the comprehensives mentioned here- Fortismere, Highgate Wood, Archer in East Finchley are all worse in terms of results than the Jewish comprehensive my DH went to (JFS) (no offence to the aforementioned schools). The jewish schools are an option for us but my DH said that JFS was terrible and had very low standards in education though he did go to a russell group uni in London. Which is why DH would only consider private or grammer. Like you, those are not natural options for us so I moved near good state schools and may consider moving to Muswell hill for fortismere (even though i am not sure how much better it is than my local comp Archer). And then i think what on earth is the point of moving for fortismere which has worse results when my child can go to JFS which now accepts jews of all affiliations? Why is it that the non faith state schools so lauded by the MC crowd worse than JFS (which my husband said was a bad school).
Secondary schools are not easy thats why so many people move to bucks and kent for the grammars. Which isn't really a good option for a single parent/2 parents who want to work in London.

@Desiringonlychild exactly - and why does everyone basically have to pretend to do god if all else fails.

Personally, am also a bit fed up with everyone saying that all unis are fine even though everyone around me has only ever been to three specific ones (ok, the latter one does change depending on the discipline i.e. Imperial is acceptable, or LSE or UCL) - but basically everyone I've met in London so far i.e. professionals all went to grammar or private then Oxbridge or top London and now all have 'naice' professional jobs. I dont assume that my son has to do that but I do expect him to have the choice and for the school to be good enough to support kids in that. All super smart kids will be fine wherever they go, but in my experience from teaching them at 18+, most just went to the right schools.

I live nw currently gospel oak so biased. I know people tufnell park whose kids got into latymer enfirld grammar... look at the catchment map.it goes as far as tufnell park the kids travel out by train.
Have dds but know people with sons at Acklan burghley they happy. Dds at la swap consortium state sixth form and good results. One dd has three offers for medicine. They get a number of oxbridge offers each year. Woodhouse sixth form college is good.