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Did I get fleeced by my builder on bathroom remodel?

83 replies

Smallgoon · 24/04/2020 21:15

Wanted your opinions on whether you believe I'm been done on my bathroom remodel. The work was essentially the old bathroom suite being ripped out and replaced with a walk-shower, counter top sink and repositioned toilet. I also had the room retiled, painted and had the same builder make me a vanity unit and a tall storage unit. My bathroom is fairly small, roughly 5smq floor space, and there were no structural changes needed.
The builder initially quoted £12k for which I told him my budget was in the £10k range and I didn't want to exceed this. He agreed to this and we agreed that I would take charge of sourcing materials but that he could purchase items such as grout/plywood etc since this was easy for him to get hold of. Mistake number one for me was that we never had a contract in place as such, and that I paid him weekly which I shouldn’t have done. I should have paid an amount upfront and then the rest on completion. Anyhoo, long story short, the bathroom ended up taking almost 4 weeks and it still remains incomplete (shaver socket missing, spot lights need replacing, no handles on storage unit etc). Initially, and for ease, I wanted to use the same builder (depending on progress) to also fit my kitchen, flooring and redecorating. I was happy to use the same builder until I noticed that he got somewhat comfortable and work had really slowed. Now given he was being paid weekly, which amounted to a day rate, obviously the longer he took the more I’d have to pay. I also grew concerned by the fact that I had gone over budget and when I started raising these concerns with him, telling him that I needed to reel the spending in, he’d almost become annoyed and make it sound as though I was being irrational and that I should up my budget because ‘you only get to do this once’. The issue was, there wasn’t a magic money tree that I could rely on if I went significantly over budget so I didn’t think I was being unreasonable. The next thing I knew, he’d moved onto other projects within the flat (such as decorating and pulling the kitchen apart) even though the bathroom was incomplete. When I’d try to sit down with him (realising I didn’t want to make the same mistake as before, and this time set a fixed price that we stayed within rather than this turning into a day rate) he seemed reluctant to have this conversation. Every time I asked him to give me a quote for the remaining works, he’d tell me he would, and then never would. Things started to sour when I told him that we MUST agree a fixed amount, and that I would pay him 25% in advance and the rest would follow upon completion. The whole mood changed, he seemed to really take this to heart and felt attacked, telling me that it felt as though I didn’t ‘trust’ him. The final straw for me came when I arrived to my flat, and found that one of the windows had been damaged. He told me that whilst trying to close it, it had gotten jammed and he then insisted that I should look into getting this fixed because my windows were clearly ‘flimsy’. On the same day, upon discussing carpet options for my bedroom (a space which covers 12sqm) he suggested a carpet costing almost £700, knowing full well I was keeping a tighter handle on budget. He also knew that I’d spent £1300 on engineered flooring for a space measuring 30sqm - therefore why would I spend half that amount on carpet for a single room! I realised at this stage that I just couldn’t trust him to ‘stick to the brief’ and that I was better off finding somebody else to finish the rest of the flat. Obviously, he wasn’t happy with this and then suggested he take his belongings and leave. I told him that was fine but that he’d need to fix the window he’d broken and complete my bathroom in full (the vanity was still missing drawers!).
Unfortunately, the drawers he fitted, ironically, are flimsy, not sure if this was deliberate or not, but as mentioned, the bathroom is still not 100% complete. All in all, he was paid £7600 in labour fees (he had help from two others, they looked like apprentices) and then £2210 for materials/expenses. On top of this, I spent £2500 on items such as the shower, toilet, sink, towel rack, tiles, paint etc. So, all in all we’re looking at £12,219 for a bathroom that is still incomplete. He also didn’t provide any invoices, receipts etc, and is still demanding I pay him for painting my bedroom and ripping out the bathroom, which I find a bloody cheek given the bathroom is still incomplete. I should state that this is for a 1 bed flat in SE London. I know that builder costs in London are extortionate, just wanted an idea if people think what I paid was fairly standard or whether I’ve paid over the odds.

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Winnipegdreamer · 01/05/2020 22:09

If you don’t trust him and aren’t happy with the work then why on Earth are you allowing him to carry on with other works? Don’t allow him back in! Shock

Harakeke · 01/05/2020 22:24

@Winnipegdreamer she’s not letting him back - and rightly so!

Beautiful bathroom but that finish is shocking! Are you still considering taking him to the small claims court?

Smallgoon · 02/05/2020 12:59

@earsup That's a really good point actually. I mentioned that my brother's friend Jo is a carpenter, and ordinarily I'd have had him do quite a lot of the work but he wasn't available at the time, as he was already committed to a longer-term project. Thankfully his project is now on hold and he's offered to do my flooring and kitchen installation, at a fraction of the price I was being quoted by previous rogue trader, and no doubt he'll do to a much better finish (if his own home is anything to go by!).
Do let me know if Peter is available to sort my electrics though Grin

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Smallgoon · 02/05/2020 13:01

@Winnipegdreamer Oh I'm not! I nipped that in the bud weeks ago. Realised that he'd pull the same stunt, drag the work out, since he prefers to operate on a day rate, and continue to con me during the process.

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Smallgoon · 02/05/2020 13:03

@Harakeke Hi, thanks I agree the bathroom does look nice as per the design I'd wanted, but yes the finishing is atrocious. Of course, according to him it was good value. I'm considering my options and yes, small claims court is definitely something I'll consider. I wasn't so sure initially but the responses on here have reaffirmed that I've been taken for a ride.

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earsup · 02/05/2020 13:11

small claims court is quite easy these days and can be done on the net and maybe the threat of it will be enough...
@smallgoon...if you in london and need excellent electrician with very reasonable costs then try adam jakistan...he is on FB and company is called inphase electrics...he is a polish chap and studied here and now uses a cargo bike as got fed up of the traffic...me and all my neighbours use him...excellent !

Smallgoon · 02/05/2020 13:22

@earsup Thanks! Will deffo look into using him if he comes highly recommended! Smile

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Smallgoon · 04/05/2020 14:57

UPDATE: so he's been in touch to basically submit his final invoice (£2k for some painting of which he didn't even do that good a job, there are parts of the wall he didn't sand down etc) but has removed the cost of losing my fob from the total as well as £250 for me to get my 'wobbly drawers' sorted by another tradesman. I've replied again to ask why he's ignored the poor workmanship (for which I provided several pics) and why he's yet to provide receipts (he apparently spent £410 for skip hire, but I've still got the old toilet sat in my bedroom!!). Couldn't really make it up. I'm looking into small claims court. MyBuilder.com has been as unhelpful as one could imagine. I certainly won't be using that site again.

Did I get fleeced by my builder on bathroom remodel?
Did I get fleeced by my builder on bathroom remodel?
Did I get fleeced by my builder on bathroom remodel?
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MarieG10 · 04/05/2020 15:10

Op. Assume you are not paying it?

earsup · 04/05/2020 16:23

Yes painting is poor in the window reveal...need some caulk to fill the gap etc...skips are not £400 unless its a big one...just proceed with the claims court and ignore his invoices.

conduitoffortune · 04/05/2020 16:41

I can't believe London prices for builders and tradesmen! I paid 2k for my old bathroom to be ripped out, a wall rebuilt, and new bathroom suite and tiles etc. That included the suite. I would say the finish is as poor as your builders but it's easier to suck up for 2k. Even my kitchen getting ripped out, knocked through and a new kitchen fitted cost under 3k. Move up North! Or project manage the next refurb yourself, it works out so much cheaper.

Smallgoon · 04/05/2020 16:44

@MarieG10 No of course not!

@earsup - what is caulk? In a whatsapp msg he told me what the £2k covered and included that he'd "removed mould from window and made them good" - there was no mould on the window and I can't see from the last pic that he did 'make them good' judging from the cracks. Will be proceeding with small claims. Funnily enough though, he doesn't seem too fussed about being paid for that final invoice, given that it's taken him 7 weeks to get it over to me. Seems to me he knows he's in the wrong.

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Loofah01 · 04/05/2020 17:04

He sounds like a huge number of tradesmen that think they do a great job but are, in reality, just shit.
We had a tiny bathroom refitted and they guy was sooo impressed with himself, pointing out all the little details he'd done. Shame for him really as it gave me target practice. Overlapping tiles, badly cut edging, a completely knackered unusable bath where he'd tried to fit then refit the taps, caulking coming away as he'd left some greasy surface or other. These are the 'blind tradesmen'!
Difficult to find a really good one tbh. I find personal recommendations and even those threads on facebook 'can anyone recommend a...' are useful for finding good ones

Muchlywrong · 04/05/2020 18:11

Caulk is basically silicone that isn't sanitary. It's used by decorators etc to give a smooth finish on corners. In terms of small claims court, you will probably struggle to get much, if anything, from it. As you never agreed a time frame to get it finished or costs on anything apart from his labour, you are more likely to find yourself having to pay costs to him. I would get a free (15 minutes?) consultation with someone first, to advise you, before you have to spend out £200 odd, plus a days holiday.
I never tire of saying this to people, but never trust any of this tradespeople websites any more. Even Which?. Tradespeople pay to advertise on their, then pay to get jobs sent to them too. There is no incentive to them helping you either, as they make no money from you. As people say, ask around others you know and they should gladly recommend people they have used and trusted.

earsup · 04/05/2020 18:14

Decoraters caulk...a flexible filler...you put the tube in the gun and squeeze it out...you can get it from poundland ...same stuff as the one in diy shops for £7 etc...all the same and works the same...it covers cracks in areas of small movents.

Smallgoon · 04/05/2020 18:30

@Muchlywrong Hi, we did agree a time-frame (2 weeks), it was a verbal agreement which apparently counts (according to MyBuilder), but also, he himself admits it should have been a two week project. He's saying the plumbing of the toilet caused the delay (he never mentioned this as the cause during the project), as well as the fact that I'd opted for herringbone and hexagonal tiles, despite the fact that this was clearly mentioned in my initial advert and he was aware of the tiles are the initial discussion. He's also admitted that he took on another project whilst working on mine (which I believe is the sole reason for the delay). In terms of costs, again, we did have an agreement. We agreed that we would keep this to within £10k (evidence of which is detailed in whatsapp transcript).

Why do you say that I will most likely end up having to pay him costs? I mean, I've gone ahead and left him negative feedback on MyBuilder, which he doesn't appear to be disputing. I've also got pictures of the poor finishing, which he is now ignoring, but surely those photos/a review from another tradesman, would count for something?

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Smallgoon · 04/05/2020 18:31

@earsup Ah ok. Well it just highlights that if he had 'made my windows good' as he claims, he would have used this to sort the cracks which are quite evident.

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Muchlywrong · 04/05/2020 18:44

If you have this all in writing, then you stand a much better chance, but it has sounded mainly as though this was all through verbal agreement. Small claims courts all come down to evidence to support what you are claiming for, which is why I recommend speaking to someone in the legal trade first, to make sure you have all you need to support your claim. I'm not supporting this builder, but just suggesting that you proceed with a clear idea of what you need to support yourself if you do try and claim money back.

Smallgoon · 04/05/2020 19:11

@Muchlywrong no, that's fair enough. I meant we never had a written contract as such, you know, a signed document. However we had extensive whatsapp conversations which confirm the 'verbal' agreement we had in place. But in the email I received from him 3 days ago, he acknowledges (which certainly helps me) that he had promised me a two week time frame, and that we had agreed on a set budget of £10k. He is however blaming me for the reason we went over budget (claiming I overspent on tiles which is nonsense). In my opinion I paid a fortune on labour, but also materials for which he has yet to provide any receipts for, and I'm fairly certain he was adding a hefty mark up (hence why he won't provide receipts). I gave the example of him spending £410 on skip hire but the old toilet which was ripped out is still sat in my bedroom!

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TheHumansAreDefinitelyDead · 04/05/2020 19:21

Yes you were fleeced, but how unusual to pay him a wage for as long as needed rather than agree a fixed price based on materials and estimated hours

It’s very unusual and a bad idea. Have you got a friend who could help you find the right person at the right price for the rest of the house?

I have been fleeced previously and now get a friend over to help me. He’s a no nonsense talking bloke, and lots of workmen get irritated by his questions but I also get a much much better deal.

My DH is even more hopeless than me so he stays out of it completely Grin

TheHumansAreDefinitelyDead · 04/05/2020 19:24

Also get quotes/estimates in writing. Ask the hourly rate, vat etc etc

Please

Smallgoon · 04/05/2020 20:38

@TheHumansAreDefinitelyDead Yes, I was naiive, and I've learnt the hard way, hence the reason for asking the questing in the first place. I hadn't realised that he was essentially charging a day rate until we we'd reached the end of week 3. I also didn't realise it was normal to pay upon completion. When I suggested we do that for a new project within the flat, he started to get a little bit defensive, which were definitely alarm bells for me!

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itsasmallworldafterall · 04/05/2020 21:41

Such a shame about the finish but those blue/white tiles are lovely, can I ask where they're from?

Smallgoon · 04/05/2020 21:55

@itsasmallworldafterall Thank you, I love them too. They're actually a pistachio green rather than blue. They're the lily pad tiles by ca'pietra. You can find cheaper dupes too if you google lily pad tiles. I got mine from this store in London and the customer service was second to none. Free delivery too which is rare for heavy tiles.

www.styleideasdirect.co.uk/products/lily-pad-hexagon-porcelain-pistachio-20x23cm-price-per-tile?variant=31631889498148&currency=GBP&gclid=Cj0KCQjw-r71BRDuARIsAB7i_QPbIOHs3OghW1YEDX6nYDePM0roTTgTvriPsqAKBjAL7enG0KjxE3UaAna3EALw_wcB

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TheHumansAreDefinitelyDead · 04/05/2020 22:13

It is beautiful

But you even discussed him doing further work?!

No no no please don’t

But then again, I guess you can afford it anyway and 10k may just be small change to you?