Converted loft with no building regulation certificate -- Can it be counted as a bedroom?

[ginger09]

We are buying a house which is advertised as 4 beds. Just before moving to the exchange, it turned out the converted loft, which has been named as a bedroom, has never obtained building regulation completion certificate. As we raised this issue, their solicitor, as well as ours, suggested indemnity insurance be put in place to cover the risk of authority enforcement.

We understand the purpose of indemnity here. However, what we are concerned about are 1) whether this property can be sold as 4 beds, and 2) whether we can use this space as a habitable room with no safety concerns. And also, 3) the extent indemnity insurance would cover.

For the first question, I've read a lot online and learned it cannot be sold as 4 beds. Interestingly enough though, our solicitor says the converted loft with no certificate wouldn't affect the value of the property, and it can be still sold as a 4 beds house from the legal perspective. This contrasts with what we've learned from our research. Can anyone help us find reliable information on this matter?

For the second point on the safety concerns, the building survey did not specifically raise major issues. However, we are concerned about how this can affect our building insurance and possible liability issues that might come up if we rent out the house in the future.

Lastly, let's say we get indemnity insurance. To be fair, the conversion was done 10 years ago, and I doubt the council wants to tear it down at this point as far as we don't approach them. But what if we want to make an alteration to the existing loft in the future and thus need to get their permission? Will the insurance cover this risk as well?

We are willing to buy the property IF they agree to re-negotiate the price as 3 beds with extra space, not 4, so that we can put all the aforementioned risks aside.

Any advice would be much appreciated!

"We are chain-free, so not confined to a specific timeline except the mortgage offer. Their purchase is well advanced though, thus there's a risk that the regularisation process would break the whole chain!"

THIS puts you in a strong position. You can afford to wait. Your seller can't.

I'd ask them to regularise by getting the building signed off then you will pay what's agreed. Otherwise walk away. They will do it if they want to keep their chain. Don't get yourself into a whole heap of cost n headache when you don't need to.

We live in a house with a converted loft with no building regs paperwork.
Loft was done approx 25 years ago - by us🙄🙄🙄
Was done by professional tradesmen.
Only reason we don't have any paperwork, is through sheer ignorance on our part - we didn't know we needed it.
I fully expect, if ever we come to sell, we will sell as a 3 bed plus loft room, and have to take a hit price wise.
Your vendors are being greedy/stubborn, as this issue will raise itself whoever they end up selling to.

If, as you state in your OP, you do want to potentially rent it out in the future, it is even more vital that yours is signed off properly as you need fire safety certificates etc for rental properties.

Good luck.

In these circumstances I would be putting pressure on the sellers to get the local authority inspector out. They can usually attend quite quickly, at least in my LA they do (I’m a conveyancing solicitor).

I would want it signing off, particularly if there’s a mortgage.

Please don’t contact the LA yourselves though, speak to your solicitor first about putting pressure on the seller to sort it.

I would be putting pressure on the sellers to get the local authority inspector out. They can usually attend quite quickly, at least in my LA they do (I’m a conveyancing solicitor)

Wouldn't that only be of benefit it it were the local authority were the ones who inspected when the work took place?

Otherwise there will need to be a lot of work to expose parts of the construction - floor strengthening, fire proofing, structural roof supports.

That's why it is important that efforts are made to establish exactly who did the inspection that has resulted in an entry on the search results/

Stall with the purchase and tell the vendors they must get the correct papers.
Simple.

@Mildura, the Op said earlier that a building inspector (presumably the LA) had been out some years before but it had just not been finalised.

Ah, I see you’ve mentioned a private firm. I would think it’s more likely that it was the LA, or done on their behalf.

@peppermintpasty
Very, very common for loft conversion companies to use private building control.
Nothing to give us any reason to presume it was an inspector from the local authority.

This was the firm my builder used:

www.jhai.co.uk

Yes, I’m aware of that. It’s quite unusual in my area, I suspect that’s colouring my view.

OP, these are things your solicitor should be sorting out, frankly. If you’re not confident in their abilities, ask for your matter to be referred to someone more senior in the firm, as a start.

Thanks all for sharing your experiences and knowledge! So these are the risks that I learned when buying a house with a loft room with no regulation certificate:

• Building insurance wouldn't cover the loft

- Mortgage offer (incl. re-mortgage in the future) could be affected - Safety not fully guaranteed (although the structural survey didn't find major issues) - The cost that may occur to re-do some work - Our future buyer will raise the same issues as us

And here's what has happened afterward.

We delivered the concerns to our solicitor and agent, and they both insisted indemnity policy would cover all those risks, which absolutely contrasts with what we learned from a lot of threads, media articles, solicitors' websites and blogs. The agent even warned us that the sellers are in high pressure from their sellers to get the exchange done by next week, and if we keep insisting a sign-off, they would walk away and go back to a higher cash buyer who made an offer a few months after our offer was accepted (He told us about it back then).

As they insisted information online is inaccurate and unreliable, I asked them to show us convincing evidence that indemnity would cover all those risks. So far, a few lines of email from our solicitor is the only thing we got for the confirmation. I am not sure whether it's my problem that I cannot fully trust our solicitor, or it's his problem failing to get trust from his clients.

The sellers disclosed this information right before the exchange. To be honest, losing the house would be a pain, but we don't want to allow them to pass over their problem by simply offering us £100 indemnity policy.

We've just instructed our solicitor to make an official request to the sellers to get a sign-off. The agent says he will talk with the sellers directly but highly likely they would go walk away to this another buyer. Quite nervous!

I think that's sensible op, if you went through with it you'd have faced these problems when you went to sell yourself. Keep us updated. Good luck

Well, they may walk away and go back to a cash buyer who made a higher offer but...presumably, that cash buyer, like you, doesn't know that there are no signed off building regs paperwork.
S/he may not be so keen to part with a shed load of cash once they do know.

I do think your vendor has caused this issue for themselves, by not being totally upfront about this from the outset.

If/when we ever sell ours, I would inform all potential buyers of the issue and price the property accordingly.
It may take longer to find a buyer but at least everyone is fully informed what they are buying from the outset.

@Wingedharpy 100% agreed. How can they be so sure the other party would be just happy with it?

The agent talked with them yesterday and informed us the sellers have the same issue with the house they are buying (uncertified loft), but they are just fine with an indemnity for their purchase. Well, that cannot be an excuse to block us from making our demand.

Will see what happens next. Wish us luck!

I'm having my loft done now, it's a big job. No way I'd buy a property without certificate. We are having to get smoke alarms fitted throughout and fire doors (not happy as ours are 130 year old period feature.) The sellers could get an inspection now potentially to see what's required. But not sure how that would work as unable in inspect steels etc once finished.

@ginger09 did the sellers end up getting it signed off?

Can't see how it can be sold as an extra room without proof.
To convert ours we had to do the same a CottonSock
As well as all the extra joists etc we had to get new 1/2 hour fire doors on bedrooms, lounge, kitchen and leading to the loft. New linked mains powered fire alarms. An RSJ downstairs to support the dividing bedroom wall (for structural reasons not fire regs), and any glass panelling (eg above the door) had to be fire retarding as well.
So without a certificate its only storage.

Regularisation will involve taking off plaster to look at any beams. I highly doubt the sellers will want to do this. Could you get an engineer in to have a look at the house and advise?

Also only the council can deal with regularisation. Private firms are not allowed. If the council is invited in now for your benefit and they indicate a cost to put things right that you dont want to pay and so back out, then the sellers have then also lost the chance to have an indemnity policy in the future for other sellers.