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58 replies

AnnaCMumsnet · 13/09/2019 11:04

Mumsnet and housing charity Shelter are teaming up to provide a specialist housing advice forum for one week.

From Monday, housing adviser Andy will answer questions and advise you on your rights if you’re renting from a private landlord, a council or housing association tenant, or if you are homeless or facing homelessness.

The clinic will take place on this thread in the form of a 'Q&A' session from Monday 16 September to Friday 20 September. It will cover issues like: landlord disputes, tenancy deposits, overcrowding, eviction, getting repairs done, homelessness applications, mortgage arrears and eviction. We will do our best to provide all answers during the week but, at the latest, by the Monday of the following week.

Shelter helps millions of people every year struggling with bad housing or homelessness through advice, support and legal services. And they campaign to make sure that, one day, no one will have to turn to them for help.

Important The advice provided is based on the information provided by the poster, it is meant for general guidance and does not constitute legal advice. You can read Shelter’s Legal Disclaimer in full here.

Support Shelter There are lots of ways you can support Shelter. If you can spare 30 minutes you can help test and improve the advice and information on their website. Email [email protected] for more information. You can also visit the website to find out about other ways to support Shelter.

OP posts:
CatToddlerUprising · 18/09/2019 22:05

Hi Andy,
We are moving out of our rented property following a Section 21 as the landlord wanted to sell. He is being rather difficult (even though we’ve allowed viewings and the buyer’s mortgage surveyor to come round) and I can envision him being petty about returning the deposit from the TDS. As he has now sold and the mortgage survey had been completed- how far can he try to push deductions from the deposit? Can he take money from our deposit if he has sold? We’ve caused no damage, no holes in the walls etc.

ShelterAdviceClinic · 19/09/2019 09:59

@CatToddlerUprising

Hi Andy, We are moving out of our rented property following a Section 21 as the landlord wanted to sell. He is being rather difficult (even though we’ve allowed viewings and the buyer’s mortgage surveyor to come round) and I can envision him being petty about returning the deposit from the TDS. As he has now sold and the mortgage survey had been completed- how far can he try to push deductions from the deposit? Can he take money from our deposit if he has sold? We’ve caused no damage, no holes in the walls etc.

Hello, @CatToddlerUprising,

Thank you for getting in touch.

I’m sorry that you’re having difficulties in dealing with your landlord, particularly in the circumstances. It must be a very stressful time.

Because the landlord has used a section 21, I’m assuming that you have an assured shorthold tenancy. Most private tenants with a non-resident landlord have this tenancy type, particularly if the rent is below around £8,000 per month and the landlord has limited access to the property.

I’m afraid that the landlord can still make deductions from your deposit even if the property has been sold. Although the landlord may have no intention of carrying out work to repair damage caused by a tenant, the landlord is still entitled to make deductions for any theoretical financial loss they have suffered.

However, the deposit remains your money until proven otherwise. Tenants are only responsible for leaving a property in the same condition is was when they moved in, allowing for reasonable wear and tear. While landlords can make reasonable deductions for things such as rent arrears or damage caused to the property, they should not withhold money to cover issues resulting from normal use of the property.

It’s also worth checking your tenancy agreement for any deductions that may be mentioned. In some cases, landlords use the deposit to pay administration fees or check-out costs. While these fees have now largely been banned, they could still apply to tenancies starting before 1 June this year. There may also be clauses relating to what standard of cleaning is required and what end-of-tenancy procedures are expected of the tenant.

If your landlord is proposing deductions, these should be evidenced. The landlord should first prove that you are responsible for any issues. A check-in inventory carried out at the start of a tenancy is often compared to a check-out inventory at the end. This can help determine whether a tenant has caused any damage, as well as highlight issues that existed before the tenancy began.

In case your landlord is arguing that what you believe to be wear and tear is damage, there is no set definition in law of what constitutes fair wear and tear as opposed to damage so this is open to some interpretation. As a general principle wear and tear is the general deterioration of something through normal use and reasonable day to day living. We have more information about damage and wear and tear here:
england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/damage_or_wear_and_tear

The landlord should then provide evidence of financial loss. Usually this will include receipts, quotes or invoices. If the landlord has carried out any work themselves, they can also charge for their time, but this must be reasonable.

If your landlord is proposing deductions, the first step is negotiation. If you can, do this in writing so you have a record of what you’ve discussed. There’s information on this, including template letters you can use, here: england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/tenancy_deposits/how_to_get_your_tenancy_deposit_back

You’ve mentioned that the TDS (the Tenancy Deposit Scheme) is involved - this could be important if you're unable to resolve matters through negotiation. Most assured shorthold tenants should have any deposit they have paid protected by a government-approved scheme. These deposit protection schemes offer an impartial adjudication service for resolving disputes if a tenant doesn’t agree with deductions proposed by the landlord, called ‘Alternative Dispute Resolution’ (ADR). The TDS has useful information on its website about disputes and deductions here: www.tenancydepositscheme.com/deposit-disputes.html

It is free to use ADR, but this must be agreed by both landlord and tenant. If either party doesn’t agree, the tenant will often need to go to court to get their deposit back. We have advice on this here: england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/tenancy_deposits/court_action_for_a_tenancy_deposit_refund

One last factor that could affect the situation is checking to make sure your landlord has protected your deposit properly. The landlord must protect a security deposit within 30 days of you paying it. Within this time, they must also provide you with prescribed information. You can read more about this here: england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/tenancy_deposits/tenancy_deposit_protection_rules

If the landlord has failed to do this, they have breached their legal requirements. There are penalties for this – for example, a section 21 may not be valid. Perhaps more pertinently here, the tenant may be entitled to claim compensation of between 1 and 3 times the value of the deposit. You can read more on this here: england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/tenancy_deposits/tenancy_deposit_compensation_claims

You may not wish to start compensation action straight away. This type of claim can take time and the initial court costs may be expensive (although if you win the case you are usually entitled to claim these costs back from the landlord). However, these claims theoretically have a high chance of success. For this reason, some landlords are willing to come to a settlement out-of-court rather than risk court action. For example, they might agree to return the deposit in full within a certain amount of time.

It’s also worth bearing in mind that any claim for compensation would need to be made within 6 years of the landlord being in breach of legislation, and there are risks involved. If you lose you might have to pay the court costs yourself, and this may include the landlord’s costs too.

All being well your landlord will be reasonable and you’ll be able to come to an arrangement that you both feel is fair. However, I hope that this gives you a useful overview of what could be involved and what your options might be if your landlord suggests deductions are required. If there’s anything more we can do to help, please do let us know.

Kind regards,

Andy @ Shelter

Contact Shelter's housing experts online, by telephone, in person or on social media: england.shelter.org.uk/get_help

ShelterAdviceClinic · 19/09/2019 10:13

Hi everyone,

Thanks so much for all your messages so far. I hope that the advice has been useful.

If anyone has anything to ask, please do get in touch. This advice clinic is continuing until the end of the week, so there’s still plenty of time to send your enquiries through.

We can provide information on many different aspects of private, council and housing association tenancies and home ownership issues. As a reminder, here are some of the topics we’re often asked about and the types of advice we frequently provide:

  • Tenancy deposits
  • Overcrowding
  • Eviction
  • Disrepair
  • Homelessness
  • Landlord disputes
  • Rent and mortgage arrears
  • Ending a tenancy
  • Harassment and ASB
  • Social housing waiting lists and allocations
  • Housing and relationship breakdown

Our website covers all of these areas of advice and many more, including resources you can use to identify and enforce your rights.

If you’d prefer to get in touch with us directly, you’re also very welcome to do so. Our website is available here: england.shelter.org.uk/

We’re looking forward to hearing from you.

Kind regards,

Andy @ Shelter

Contact Shelter's housing experts online, by telephone, in person or on social media: england.shelter.org.uk/get_help

Dontburstmybubble · 19/09/2019 22:28

If I rent privately and have a joint tenancy agreement with my husband am I legally allowed to ask him to leave while remaining in the home with our two young children or can he refuse and if he does refuse what would be my best option for me and the kids ?

ShelterAdviceClinic · 20/09/2019 10:26

@Dontburstmybubble

If I rent privately and have a joint tenancy agreement with my husband am I legally allowed to ask him to leave while remaining in the home with our two young children or can he refuse and if he does refuse what would be my best option for me and the kids ?

Hello @Dontburstmybubble,

Thank you for contacting us about this.

It sounds like you may well be going through a very difficult time, and I’m sorry to hear that you’re in the position where you feel you have to ask your husband to leave.

You’ve not mentioned the reasons why you might want your husband to leave (and it’s quite understandable that you may not feel it’s appropriate to share this information) but I’ll give you some information about a range of situations that might apply.

I’m sorry to say that although you could ask your husband to leave, if he refuses you would not be able to force him to do so without taking additional action. There are two main reasons for this.

Firstly, joint tenants have equal and indivisible rights to stay in the property. One joint tenant can’t legally exclude the other without a court order while the joint tenancy continues. You can read more about the rights of joint tenants here:
england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/joint_tenancies

Additionally, in family law, people who are married or in a civil partnership have what’s known as ‘home rights’. This means each partner has equal rights to stay in the property that they’ve lived in together. These rights apply regardless of whether they legally own the property or are a named tenant. This right continues for as long as they are married or in a civil partnership, assuming no legal action is taken.

If your husband is willing to leave, there’s nothing in law to prevent him from doing so. As long as one of the joint tenants remains in the property, the tenancy could continue indefinitely. If you’re able to negotiate the terms of the arrangement, so much the better. Because of the rights mentioned above, he would continue to be able to lawfully enter the property at will. You may be able to come to an agreement whereby he respects that this is no longer his home and consents to enter only with your permission. While this won’t change his rights in law, it may give you more peace of mind.

Additionally, joint tenants are all jointly and individually responsible for paying the rent. This means that if one moves out, although the other joint tenant can be held responsible for paying the full amount, the tenant who has left can also be held liable under their obligations relating to the tenancy. It would be for the landlord to decide who to pursue. If you’re able to negotiate an arrangement to determine who would be responsible to pay and for what, this may help to avoid disputes later.

Another aspect of joint tenancies that are often best to resolve at this point is what happens to the deposit at the end of the tenancy. If there hasn’t been an arrangement made at the start of the tenancy regarding how the deposit will be distributed when the tenancy ends, it may cause further issues later. Often the deposit is either returned to both tenants equally, or to one ‘lead’ tenant. If you feel that a different arrangement might be more appropriate, it’s worth trying to arrange this with all the parties involved now.

If it’s not possible to come to an amicable arrangement, I’m afraid that this makes the situation more difficult. If your husband refuses to leave, you would then have the option of either leaving and having to find somewhere else to live, or taking action involving the courts to exclude him. There aren’t options in housing law to exclude another joint tenant, and in a situation like this you would have to rely on family law.

If a joint tenant wants to exclude someone else from the home, they may be able to apply for an occupation order. This defines the rights of either party. While in some cases it may be clear who should leave and who should remain, in other situations it can be difficult to anticipate what the outcome of an application for an occupation order may be.

Alternatively, if in the future you and your husband decide to divorce, rights to the property can be determined during proceedings.

Someone considering either of these routes would need specialist advice on family law. You could try contacting Rights of Women for help with this; they’re a voluntary organisation offering free, confidential legal advice covering family law, divorce and relationship breakdown, children and contact issues. You can find out more here: www.row.org.uk/get-advice/

You can also use the Law Society website to search for local family law solicitors here:
solicitors.lawsociety.org.uk/

If you are experiencing domestic abuse, there are additional routes you can consider.

If you believe that you are at risk of immediate harm, call 999. The police may be able to take steps to exclude your husband from your home and prevent him from returning.

If you need to exclude your husband urgently because you and your children are at risk, you may also be able to apply for an injunction. You can find out more here:
www.gov.uk/injunction-domestic-violence

The National Centre for Domestic Violence provides a free, fast emergency injunction service to survivors of domestic abuse, regardless of their financial circumstances. You can contact them on 0800 970 2070 or visit their website for more details here:
www.ncdv.org.uk/are-you-suffering-domestic-abuse/

You can also contact the 24-hour National Domestic Violence Helpline on 0808 2000247. Their advisers can provide emotional support and search for refuge accommodation. They can also help you to plan for leaving your home if this is something you need support with.
You can find out more by visiting their website here:
www.nationaldomesticviolencehelpline.org.uk

You should also be classed as homeless if it's not reasonable for you to stay there because you’re experiencing abuse. This means you can make a homelessness application to your local council, which can be a quick way of getting accommodated if you meet certain criteria. Be aware that the council may ask for some kind of evidence to show that you’re experiencing abuse. However, they should act with sensitivity and care, with consideration of any emotional or psychological effects the situation is having on you and minimising the chance of you being put at further risk.

If you feel that this applies, you can read our advice about how to apply as homeless and search for the contact details of the council’s homelessness team here:
england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/homelessness/guide/get_help_from_your_council_when_homeless/how_to_apply_as_homeless

If you need more advice about any of these issues, please do consider getting back in touch. If you’d prefer, you’re more than welcome to contact our advice services in confidence: england.shelter.org.uk/get_help

I hope that you’re able to resolve the situation, and very best wishes.

Kind regards,

Andy @ Shelter

Contact Shelter's housing experts online, by telephone, in person or on social media: england.shelter.org.uk/get_help

AnnaCMumsnet · 20/09/2019 17:16

Hello

We're closing this thread to new queries now.

Thank you so much to everyone who's posted questions. And a very big round of applause to Andy from Shelter. Thank you for such detailed and useful answers.

Thanks
MNHQ

OP posts:
ShelterAdviceClinic · 20/09/2019 17:44

Hi everyone,

A huge thank you to anyone who has posted questions, commented or even just read the thread. I really hope it's been helpful.

Also, big thanks to @AnnaCMumsnet and @MNHQ for teaming up with Shelter to arrange this clinic. It's been a great opportunity to provide advice and hopefully reach new people.

If you need to find out more about Shelter and what we do, you can do so here: england.shelter.org.uk/

If you didn't get chance to post a question and you need information, you can find the housing advice pages of our website here: england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice

You can also get in touch with our expert housing advice services here: england.shelter.org.uk/get_help

If you would like to support Shelter, there are lots of ways you can do this and help make a difference. We're currently looking for volunteers who can help test and improve the advice and information on our website. It shouldn't take more than 30 minutes, and for more information, you can email [email protected]

There's more information about how to support us here: england.shelter.org.uk/support_us

Thanks again, and hope you all have a wonderful weekend.

Best wishes,

Andy @ Shelter

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