Which property?! Head vs. Heart

[headvsheart]

DP and I have one DS and I'm currently pg. We have totally outgrown our one bed flat which we're putting on the market next week.

The problem is there are two properties that we really like. One makes sense for us as a family (3 bed house with enclosed garden), is cheaper but the location isn't as good. The other is a fantastic 2 bed flat with loads of light in a great area (especially for schools and a 20 min walk to DPs work) but it is £20k more expensive (had to go in way above AP) and has v high maintenance fees.

I know it makes so much sense to go for the house but my heart says the flat, despite all the drawbacks.

I'll link them both below and any opinions would be gratefully received.

The house: www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-80801591.html

The flat: www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-60866394.html

Having said that. I recently sold a 1970s property in Sydenham and it went for a good price.

Morning everyone.
Thanks for the latest comments.

My head is a mess!! Dreamt about living in the flat but experiencing all the downsides and @Bluntness100 was there with a wry smile on their face. MN can really fuck with you!

I agree with a few of you about location being king in London. But then the toss up between that and practicality is so hard. But the drawbacks of the flat could be so outweighed by the quality of life there. We're not put off by flat living, have done it for over 7 years now and I don't mind being overlooked etc

And yes, not holding my breath too much for either property as they could both go poof! at any time. Sorry that a few of you have been bitten that way.

I also think the flat will hold its value much better and the flats in the building are so sought after. But yeah the fees make my bank account wince and we'd be massively pushing our limit to get that place. (The one @averythinline posted is above our budget).

All your opinions are really useful and it's so useful to hear what everyone thinks about it. So thank you for posting.

Most boroughs have cracked down on this thankfully London so it wouldn’t be a safe choice to make. Was this recently? People got away with it about 6 years ago but not anymore.

Rtft then went back and looked at the specs for the house and the flat. I'd go for the house 100%.

I agree with a few of you about location being king in London

Yes, but bear in mind that 'less good' areas in London are constantly improving. What was rough 10 years ago is now in demand. Where I live was SO rough when I bought. Friends thought I was bonkers. Now it's trendy and full of bloody hipsters and becoming pretty pricey. And the former failing high school across the road is now outstanding. Places change, especially in London, so I actually think location is less important in this specific case when looking at the difference between the flat and house.

Just some more thoughts on why you should go for the flat. We used to live in a similar mid-century estate. We moved when we had DC2. What would have enabled us to stay was if our flat was bigger (it was a tiny 2-bed, approx 600 sq ft) and if we had better access to the communal outdoor space (it was down the corridor, several flights of stairs, several doors and a gate that the caretakers often forgot to leave unlocked on weekends - so use was limited).

In your case, neither of those things would be an issue. The bedrooms are big enough that DC can share until they're quite old (potentially forever if they're the same sex). There's loads of storage too, which is a big plus in terms of making flats liveable with kids. The direct access to outside space that everyone else says is a negative, I think is a positive. You can see from the pics that the current owners use the area directly outside the door as an almost private space. The tiny third bedroom has great potential to be adapted to a proper bedroom or enlarged. Friends of ours who lived on our estate (grade II listed) made all sorts of changes to their flat (a bigger one than ours, but smaller than this one you're looking at) to make it workable for them and their two kids and have no intention of ever leaving.

Downsides were high service charge (ours was about £120 a month, but the flip side is that our utility bills were tiny) and single-glazed windows (a bit rattling and cold in the winter, but bearable). We couldn't do anything about the windows as they were part of the building's listed status.

I miss every day the sense of community we had on our estate. DC1 had friends the same age she would have gone to school with. We bumped into people every day we knew around the estate or in the local shops. There were regular community events and community organisations to be part of.

Plus, it's a great investment. Worst case you live there until the DC are about 8 and then move on. But I think they would have a lovely time growing up there.

If you don't decide (or miss out on) the flat, I'd keep looking. The house looks a bit grim to me!

You can see from the pics that the current owners use the area directly outside the door as an almost private space.

I'm curious what makes you think the flat use it as almost a private garden? Yes it has a sand and water tray and small table, but these could have come from others who have access to the outside space.

Debenhamshandtowel - last year (DC in reception). BUT they weren't faking it as such, they never moved back into their owned flat. It was too small, rented flat much better, etc. In fact, just bumped into the mum at drop off and they've (almost) bought something else, which is two years after they originally moved for school.

It is sad to think that schools vary so much that some parents do that. And very sad that some are lucky enough to have that option and others not so much.

I'm glad that London is cracking down on it!

I also know someone else who - a month before the school application deadline - rented a flat in an area that she wanted her kid to go to school in (Crouch End). And I think they have now moved back to family home (Finsbury Park). So definitely playing the game in a very suspect, immoral way!

House. When you have a toddler you'll want an upstairs bedroom, a private enclosed garden and no one living above or below you.

IceRebel

• because I've lived in a similar block where people with flats opening onto the communal garden put chairs/ tables/ plants in pots directly outside their door, despite this being officially part of the communal area. I suppose someone else could have come and sat on these/ watered their plants, but why would they? They were clearly owned by and for the use of the people who lived in those flats.
• because why would someone else in the block put kids play equipment right outside someone else's door?
• because the current owners clearly have a toddler/ small child (see furniture in one of the bedroom)
• because that area is clearly featured in one of the photos as if to imply it is used by the current owners of the flat (why would the estate agent include a photo of someone else's outdoor furniture/ play stuff?)

The current owners of the flat clearly do have a small child, thats probably why they are selling to move to somewhere more family friendly!

House. No question. With two children, you want a house, more bedrooms, bathrooms and a private garden.

Who knows why they're moving NotMeNoNo? Anyway, horses for courses. I have friends who have/ are raising 2-child families in central London flats smaller than this with no direct access to outside space. It's a different type of childhood to the suburban norm, but it's still a very good one, enviable in many respects. There are loads of advantages that many of the responses to this thread don't recognise.

As someone who lives in Scotland I'm always amazed at the London prices. The flat would be a definite no, potential upstairs noise, a house is much better with kids and this one is lovely. The flat has cleverly taken photos but to me looks like a claustrophobic 1960s council block.

HOUSE!

I'll give you my experience of a London communal garden - when single and with a good friend living either side of me, and with all of us having direct access, it was amazing. every evening sitting outside having a chat and a drink, constant dropping in and out of each other's kitchens.

Then we got new neighbours on one side. They left used nappies in the garden and let their toddler out at 7am on the weekends - right outside our bedroom windows. The upstairs flats had indirect access and, with a number of them being rented out, neighbours changed. Who was in the other flats made a massive differenc - one guy habitually left the locked garden gate open because he could never find his key. ALl the bikes in the shed were stolen (inc his, the idiot) but it also meant that the ground floor flats were insecure. Then one of the upstairs renters decided to have a monthly garden social - parties right outside our window of people we didn't know. Even if they finished at 9pm (they never did), it was really uncomfortable. And then the third party bbqs right outside the window. All reasonable behaviour for someone in their own garden but their own garden is also your own garden and at that point it's suddenly less reasonable - and add a baby into the mix and it's why we left

PS the construction of the flat looks like its insulated with a sheet of A4 paper and the EPC suggests high heating bills that you don't have much of an opportunity to reduce as construction won't allow improved insulation

I live about a mile from the flat and would probably go with that. In London, location really is everything and the outdoor space is fab too. If new baby was a girl I might think twice but they would be fine sharing for at least 5 years. Great local school too.

We did choose location over size 3 years ago and it was the right decision. Buy a v good quality sofabed, give your parents your room for visits. Have regular clearouts and don't hoard stuff. It's easy with kids being on one level too, no stairs to fall down and easy to keep tabs on them.

Just as a curveball, knowing the area well and being a rightmove addict, I'd put a cheeky offer in on this and do it up -
www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-68283637.html

Lovely road around the rec, your Dc would get in Rockmount (outstanding), and it's a nice walk through the park to CP.

With your two I don't think there's that big a difference locations-wise. Paxton is a sought after school but the streets around it aren't lovely. I wouldn't say it's any less tasty than around Wells Park, despite the Dulwich fancy factor. Handy to be near the station though so I get that. Secondaries-wise there's no catchment for Kingsdale so your dc would have to travel at that point anyway unless they got lucky in the lottery.

Having looked again at the flat, I used to live in a block of flats like that on the top floor with a flat roof and built around the same time. The walls had no insulation the roof had no insulation and our large single glazed window would get condensation on in the winter! It was freezing, we were all electric and it would cost a fortune to heat up! We were miserable there!

The house is horrible imo but I only really like Victorian/period houses.

Neither are worth anything like £450k

I'd go further out and get more for my ££
www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-61840569.html
A house is what you make of it.

I am finding some posts very odd.

A lot depends on whether your lives, social and work, are London based. There is no point to move out to save ££££s if you are spending hours and a fortune on the train, and if you enjoy what London has to offer.

When the DC were small DH was in a job where he could walk to work. This was one reason we never moved out. The benefits from not paying fares, not losing years on commuting, and a much closer relationship with the children, cannot be underestimated. And so much easier for me to return to work and a well paying job.

People on this board often talk out kitchen islands, off street parking and en-suites. What they don’t have is London on your doorstep, being able to hop on a bus and takes the kids to a museum, and the freedom for kids, when they are old enough, to use public transport to get around.

At the end of the day you need to decide what are your priorities.

House - but use the £150 PER MONTH saving to knock down the wall between the kitchen and lounge.

We went to view a house in Thornton Heath @Bookworm4 and decided very quickly that there was a reason it was so affordable 

You make a good point @Needmoresleep our entire lives are in London. DPs family, all my friends, his work, my work (when I am not WFH).

Plus we fucking love living in London. I go in to town with DS very often (though fully expect to go in much less frequently when DC2 makes their appearance)

If my DM had her way we'd be living in little piddleton in a lovely detached 5 bed house, a 15 min drive away from her. We don't want to!

Maybe that's why the flat has tugged my heart strings.. that location is where we really want to live. But everyone of course it has major impracticalities for family life. Would we be happier somewhere less ideal, I guess is the question.

No idea why the vendor is moving btw, forgot to ask  though apparently she's lived there for well over 10 years. And yes the potted plants and toy table etc are hers.

Can't afford that place sadly @pinkdelight. Thanks for having a snoop on my behalf though. Would deffo be up for a project but the place would have to be at approx £400k for us to afford to make any changes.