Please critique my kitchen design

[BoysRule]

We are having our house renovated and this will be the kitchen diner. It is quite long and thin so can't have an island. I have put a sort of butchers block in the middle as the space is quite large to be empty.

Does the dining area look to squashed and the kitchen too large? It's not actually that small in the dining area - the end wall is 2.7m and the side wall 2.45 which is about the size of our current dining room so it fits the table well. However, it does look small in proportion to the kitchen.

There are a lot of units in the kitchen so I'm not sure we need all of them. Do you think it would be better to move the peninsula along nearer to the sink and lose a cupboard there and then shuffle the dining room table along a bit.

Thoughts appreciated.

If it was my kitchen I would prefer a large pantry where the dining table is. I would have the cabinets and bench in an L shape along the wall diving the pantry and kitchen and running along the opposite side from your diagram and have the dining table where the kitchen is. The doorway to the pantry would be along the window side and I would have no door so the light comes through from the window.

I couldn’t see if you had two doorways or one. If you had two it probably wouldn’t work. I don’t like the idea of everyone having to walk through the kitchen to sit down at the table.

Pedestal table is a good shout, we replaced ours with one and it makes getting in and out easier.

I wondered about an alternative use for the dining space - pantry, utility or both - and then pushing the kitchen wall back to have a squarer kitchen diner but with less in it as some storage would be in the pantry

Sorry only skim read.

Instead of the breakfast bar - actually you good possibly still have it as one...

Double depth it so there are also cupboards facing the dining table. It increases the work surface space, makes the kitchen a little cosier. We dish up onto that space.

You could still have enough work too overhang for a breakfast bar just use the cupboards for things not frequently used.

Just measured my dining area and it is almost exactly the same size as yours in what is a very similar overall kitchen. It is fine when there is between 4 and 6 of us. A little cramped with any more. But we had to be really careful about table depth (I think it is 80cm) and chair depth. Also, we have floor to ceiling windows which makes it feel more spacious.

It’s very exciting! See what the next designer reckons. We had about 4 or 5 designs and then ended up effectively designing it ourselves taking bits from each that works.

If I had my time again, I would make the peninsular less deep (without room for stools) to give us a bit more dining space but we designed it that way to future proof the space.

Definitely think about whether you could use a wheeled breakfast bar as I doubt whether any kitchen designers would include this.

My sister has a similar sized kitchen and the butchers block works really well.

I love the space next to the oven, it will be very handy for putting things in/taking things out of the oven.

I like my bins hidden and not on display so I'd go for a bins in a cupboard if you haven't done that already.

I'm on the fence with the breakfast bar, I think I'd use it but I prefer the flow of a smaller one.

I LOVE the colour.

A buther's block on wheels is exactly what I meant. You can shove it out of the way whenever you want to, and drag it nearer you if you need it.

OP I basically have the same kitchen layout as you and there's no way I'd want a butchers block.... it would interrupt the flow!

My fridge opens into the 'walkway' and it's fine - don't often sit at the breakfast bar with 4 people as we'd use the dining table.

Other things we did;

Breakfast bar for two nice stools. Two fold away stools hung up out of sight for occasional use.

No high cabinets on the breakfast bar side. Keeps it feeling very open. Instead we have white open shelving for glassware, nice vases, etc. Looks lovely and makes space feel far bigger.

I would choose to have a 3 - 4 metre run of units where your oven is currently pictured (fridge at one end, built in oven(s) at the other with a sleek induction hob bang in the middle - allows room for work surface either side). This run of units would be 60cm deep *an American style fridge would probably project a little further however [approx 65-70cm].
Leaving a 90 - 100cm gap between this run of units and then have a 3m long island (90cm deep worktop with 60cm deep unit beneath). This island would be where most food prep takes place. Have an inset sink in here and lots of drawers for bowls / crockery etc. I'd have the dishwasher on this island and also include some recycling bins in one of the drawers so scraps/packaging can be thrown straight in as you go.
The 30cm overhang on the side nearest the window would allow for bar stools. I'd probably also include a 30cm base unit at each end on the window side of the island for additional storage, with the bar stools positioned between. There should be at least 90-100 cm remaining between the island and the window and I'd be considering opening up the window (perhaps as a future project depending on budget) to allow for french windows / bifolds directly behind the island.
In essence: 1x 60cm deep run of units, 1x 90-100cm walkway, 1x 90cm deep island, 1x 90+cm walkway > windows to garden.
By removing the need for the planned peninsular, you allow more room at the end of your dining table (I personally would pull it away from the wall and line it up central to the 3 doors if room allows).

We have a very similar shaped room, recently bought a gorgeous, but huge, square dining table and now plan to get rid of our peninsular as you can feel 'penned in' when sat in the seats closest to the peninsular / it blocks off / interrupts the natural walkway to the french doors.

Wow this was long. Can you tell I'm in the planning process of changing my own kitchen?!

My room proportions are similar. I actually have most of my kitchen in the smalller section with some further storage and dining area in the larger part. It really works for me as I have young children and so they are often playing in the dining area while I cook so I like having that area lovely and spacious. I do have a utility though so my washing machine and tumble drier are elsewhere.

How old are your children? I have a similar layout but with a peninsula but a breakfast bar. I wish I'd made it with seating for two. Even though the dining table is right there, I think perching at a breakfast bar is more sociable - especially if you have teens.

I agree back of tall units looks opressive. Also hob pots your back to the room.

I personally like the breakfast bar. I'd keep that as it'll be handy with kids/family/etc. The island however is something i would lose. It will interrupt your kitchen workflow instead of helping you I think!

I would also lose the small bit of worktop and shelves in between the fridge and ovens. If you want worktop space there or something like a coffee nook, I think you would be much smarter to put in hidden storage where you've got doors that open and slide inside and can then close up again. It will look a lot neater and you'll get a lot more storage that you can hide stuff in.

By hidden storage I mean something like this, either where the doors open halfway up or even full length. Next 125 do kitchens with features like that.

Wow - thanks for all the suggestions.

I think it needs a total rethink. The original plan was to have a seating area where the dining table was, then the dining table and then the kitchen. We felt the kitchen area would be too small like this though. See the photo. We don't really need the seating area as we have a living room and playroom so I thought we could move the dining area in there, however I now think I don't want the dining part to feel cramped as it is a big part of our family life.

One option (as it's part of a big renovation) is to extend out more at the back to give us maybe another metre (although we would have to get retrospective planning for this) to make the kitchen bigger.

I see what people mean about a breakfast bar so near the dining room table - it doesn't seem necessary and would free up the peninsula. We could just have two stools.

I will be posting a lot on this board as I'm going to start renovating my house this year. It was DM house and since she passed 2 years ago I have lived here but not done anything. It needs lots of work.

So downstairs there is a bathroom, kitchen, lounge and lean to utility (between house and garage). All rooms a reasonable size. DM never used the lounge and virtually lived in the kitchen (kept one room warm).

I too hate the lounge because it is cold and dark - one window and quite close to the front door. The kitchen is lovely - 2 windows and gets the evening sun. Now I realise the lounge will be warmer when I renew the double glazing and central heating, but I am thinking of knocking down the wall between kitchen and lounge.

If I knock the whole wall down, I will have to support the remaining chimney breast in the loft. Also, I will have the extra light but obviously one big room is harder to heat than two. A good compromise would be to remove part of the wall (not the chimney breast with old rayburn cooker), and replace with bifold doors. I would love pocket sliding doors but there's not enough wall space.

I would like your views on the pros and cons of open plan especially regarding the problem of keeping the area warm without spending a fortune on heating.

An extra metre always seems to solve all the woes, but it's expensive for what you get. We looked into doing the same, but all it did was give us a bit more space for dining which didn't feel like value for money. What we really wanted was more of the kitchen bit. We have an eat-in kitchen, rather than a kitchen diner, because it was a good £40k cheaper.

I think it'll be perfectly possible to get the table in and the table in the pic is just massive. Stick to a 140cm or 160cm long by 80ish wide, it'll be fine. You can always position a short or long side up against the wall opposite the patio doors, and still seat at least 4 comfortably, if you need to.

I agree with you on your latest pic. Absolute madness to compromise the cupboards and workspace of the kitchen for the sake of a sofa you don't even want.

I'd look at built in seating around one side of the dining table. It can also double as a more comfortable pace to sit if you put cushions along it. Depends on your style though.

We have a peninsula breakfast bar with 2 stools right next to our table and it is in constant use. DC love sitting there for a chat while I’m cooking, visitors sit there, it is a really unexpectedly social area.

An update on this - what do you think of this in comparison to the first one?

Why do you need the door to the bottom right of your plan? It seems a bit excessive to have two doors in a wall to the same room with only a couple of metres between them. If you got rid of that door rather than the door to the bottom left, then you could totally reconfigure and have a lot more space.

If that were the case, I'd move all the tall units to the wall where you have the hob. I think this would be nicer too as tall units can be quite imposing if you have them on a wall immediately next to a door IYSWIM? As you're so much more aware of them whereas if they are on the far right wall the depth and height of them receeds. Then you'd have more depth between the sink and the now clear bottom wall, so you could put an island in with some bar stools on the side where the blank wall is, hob or sink could go on the island (various options for extractors that pop up or in the ceiling). then lose the breakfast bar so it's more open. I'm a big island unit fan and though we don't sit at ours loads, we use it for putting everything on and prep, plus at parties everyone congregates round it.

Can you just extend the part of the room where the table is if you're worried about space? You might be able to do it by permitted development if it's only a metre or two outwards times the length of the dining area? then you could put some skylights in that extended roof bit to bring more light in?

Thanks for your thoughts - I have toyed with losing that door but it is opposite the front door and next to the utility room. The door that's further along is opposite the living room and will be in the dining part. I thought it might create less traffic through the kitchen if we had that.

As it's an extension already we can't go further on permitted development and we looked at the cost of extending it another 50cm (which we can get away with without going back to planning) and it is just too much.

I agree about the tall units but then that will be the view from the dining area. Would that matter?

It's hard to tell without a whole floor floor plan but I think on the basis of your priorities for things like an island that's the way Id go I think. If it's a couple of metres, you can enter the kitchen via the left door when you come in the house, esp as it seems to be a double pocket door so nice wide access? The only time I think you'd come in and go straight to the kitchen is with shopping so it depends if you think it would make much difference which door you enter via? coming in the right door you'd have deep tall units immediately to your left so I think it might feel more corridory if you know what I mean?

For utility access I guess it depends what the utility room is used for? Ours just gets used for laundry so that doesn't actually need to be especially accessible from the kitchen and if I was starting from scratch I'd put it upstairs like a lot of US houses so you don't have the constant back and forwards with laundry baskets!

Shame you can't expand but maybe without the island then you have enough space for dining. how many people do you need to seat on a regular basis? lots of people have lovely big tables and half of it doesn't get used most of the time, is it an option to have a smaller expandable table if you're worried about space?

I actually think the view from the dining room re tall units would be much of a muchness whether they were on the bottom or right wall but maybe less obvious on that right wall? maybe you could get it drawn up and see what it looks like on the computer to see if you prefer any elements like that or the way it is above?